Industry Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That was interesting.

I'm going to move over to Mr. Billedeau, because he said something really interesting with regard to strategic reserves.

We used to have one in Canada for oil and gas, and that was Petro-Canada. It was the market intervenor we had at that time. That's what the strategic reserve in the United States is, to provide a guarantee not just for military and those issues related to civil society and ensuring those supports are there, but also to push down on market forces when they're seen as unfair practices or interfering with inflation and so forth.

How would you suggest this one should work for us here? It's a really interesting idea, and I'm curious to hear a little more on that.

[David Billedeau]

Thank you for finding one of my points of interest. It's great to hear that.

Canada is experiencing supply disruptions right now. I think that to have an effective critical minerals strategy, we need to recognize that the usage and requirements for critical minerals in our energy production and manufacturing operations are are only going to go up in the years ahead. In that regard, to limit short-term supply chain disruptions, there exists an opportunity here to study the use of stockpiling. To do so, I think there's an opportunity for the government to partner with industry and other stakeholders to determine mineral input requirements to different critical pieces of infrastructure across the country and critical pieces of our economy and determine appropriate levels of reserves and minerals that have to be stockpiled.

That would require a lot of consultation, but I think the benefits of doing so are all too clear at the current time.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With that, could there be, for example, a set-aside for research and development, or something along that line? I see the advancement we have going here, and I see also the advantage to what you're saying: ensuring that our R and D isn't going to be compromised at any point, because we'd have the elements there.

[David Billedeau]

Precisely.

I will note that as part of our critical minerals council initiative, we are working with a number of academic institutions to study this very subject. Again, these are very early days, but I look forward to providing the committee, and government more broadly, with the results of our research in this space.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Billedeau.

We'll now move to Mr. Fast for five minutes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to first direct my questions to Mr. Gervais.

You mentioned that you need a cell supplier from outside of Canada. Is that correct?

[Patrick Gervais]

As we speak right now, yes. There are no cell producers in Canada.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Are there any proposals to set up a manufacturer for those cells here in Canada?

[Patrick Gervais]

There are a couple of companies who have showed interest for sure, yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Showing interest is one thing, but actually being serious about setting up a manufacturing facility in Canada is another matter. Is there anything standing in the way of these companies making that investment in Canada?

[Patrick Gervais]

I'm not into all of the details, but we have had discussions with some of them which are very serious. These are really expensive investments that need to be done, so you need someone who has the expertise to be able to produce these cells and then also have the right capital to make sure the project sees the day.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

To be very clear, are these lithium-ion batteries that you're putting into your buses, or is this a different type of technology?

[Patrick Gervais]

Right now, it's lithium-ion. Yes, that's correct.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right, so lithium plays a major role in the manufacture of those batteries.

[Patrick Gervais]

Yes, lithium plays a major role.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

What countries are you securing those cells from right now?

[Patrick Gervais]

Mostly Asia and Europe.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

When you say Asia, can you be more specific?

[Patrick Gervais]

It's in Korea.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Can you explain a bit which one of the three elements of the batteries...? You mentioned cells, you mentioned the battery packs and you mentioned modules. Just explain what each one of them is so we know what you're talking about.

[Patrick Gervais]

Sure.

A cell is what critical minerals are transformed into. Then you put the cells into the modules. I can't remember, but I think it's 360 cells that we're going to put in the module, and then we're going to put them in the packs—about 11 modules in a pack, I think.

It has given us the opportunity of controlling our own pro format of the batteries in making our own batteries, so that we are going to be able to fit them, because we purpose-build vehicles. That's really important for purpose-built vehicles. Some vehicles are made to be electric. By developing our pro format batteries, it gives us the opportunity to—

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

That provides me with the information I needed.

[Patrick Gervais]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

As these cells are being produced and they require lithium, there's no way we could have a made-in-Canada industry right now if we don't have a source of lithium, correct?

[Patrick Gervais]

Yes, I think that's correct. We need some lithium that comes from Canada.