Evidence of meeting #90 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you. That's very helpful.
The Library of Parliament provided us with a comparative document, and one of the areas they talked about was concepts of consent. In the context of children, can express consent really be provided when a child decides to download an app on their parent's iPhone?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Again, this is all part of the requirements in terms of the manner in which consent is provided and what will constitute valid, express consent. We've provided guidance on this. This is part of the guidance my office can provide, but, certainly, children's consent has to be looked at differently.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Would you recommend that we define it clearly, so there's no confusion that the concept of consent is defined twice in this bill, once for adults and once for minors, if we decide to amend this bill to include a definition of minors?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I'd have to look at the specific wording of what's being proposed, but certainly—
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
We might be relying on you to provide that wording, sir.
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That's right. I'm happy to provide suggestions on that, if it assists the committee.
Right now, the way it is done is that it recognizes minors' information as sensitive, and then it uses sensitivity as a factor in a number of those things, including consent.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I know, but again, the reason I believe these definitions are so important is that the definition of sensitivity can be muddled if we don't have clear definitions of what a child is in the first place according to this legislation.
I think the same concerns I have about concepts of consent could apply to concepts of erasure in the bill as well. If there is a concept of express consent for a child, how would that relate to erasure or the right to have data removed?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
The concept in the data removal for children in this instance is that you may have consented to something as a child, as a minor—and there's provision for obtaining parental consent unless you're able to do it as a minor—but as an adult you may come to the conclusion that you no longer consent to this.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you.
On that first point, let's put this in context. Mr. Turnbull talked about his daughter and apps. I have children in a similar age category, and I have the same concerns. We've heard a lot of cases. In British Columbia, we heard about Amanda Todd, a young woman who took her life out of shame after she had exposed herself on the Internet. Imagine there's a young girl who exposes herself on some type of app or platform, and that app or platform does not provide the right to have that information removed quickly enough when she was a minor. Does this bill go far enough to ensure that minors' rights are protected in cases of severe sensitivity like the one I just outlined?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
The bill provides for the minor, once an adult, to have that removed—
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It's a minor as well. Minors' information doesn't fall under the exception that exists if there's a retention policy. There's greater protection to remove minors' information, and that's something the bill would do.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Without a doubt, if that situation arose, do you believe this legislation is strong enough to address those very vulnerable situations?
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I believe that the bill sets out strong disposal protections for the information of minors, and it will also be interpreted as such by my office, because sensitivity is a factor I have to consider.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Do you believe, under this proposed legislation, that you have enough powers to go after that third party app that may be retaining sensitive information about a vulnerable child?
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
What I don't have right now is the ability to recommend—let alone issue—a fine in that situation, because the proposed section 12 is not part of the offences—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Is it your recommendation to this committee that we give you the power, as the Privacy Commissioner, to issue fines quickly and resolutely in cases where children's rights and their vulnerability have been challenged or have been exposed, or...? You get what I mean.
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
My office has to be able to act quickly, so all the tools should be available.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Right now, you can't act quickly if you wanted to.
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We cannot in terms of fines. That's why we need the ability to have compliance agreements that would include financial considerations, to have purpose violations as eligible for fines and to adopt the tribunal situation so it doesn't add delay to the process....
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Delay is not desirable in the context—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Is it your belief that a tribunal will delay your ability or the ability of people to have sensitive information wiped from the Internet?
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
My view is that adding a level of review to the process will add a delay and a cost, and so I've given two options to solve that.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I see, so in certain cases, if we go with the tribunal route, that sensitive information for a child could be delayed in being removed from the Internet. It could be delayed if we go under the governance model currently suggested in the legislation.