Industry Committee on Nov. 28th, 2023

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Earlier, we postponed consideration of the second part of Mr. Perkins' motion, but I think it's relevant in light of what we're hearing today. It reads as follows:

That the committee request Sustainable Development Technology Canada (SDTC) to provide any declarations of a conflict of interest from board members since 2015.

Ms. Méthot gave quite an exhaustive demonstration of this, but it would nevertheless be appropriate to make this request. As I understand that the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics has completed its deliberations, it would be entirely appropriate for our committee to make that request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

All right.

Colleagues, Mr. Lemire has introduced a motion essentially restating the last sentence in Mr. Perkins' motion, which we dealt with earlier.

Are there any comments?

Go ahead, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Why are we picking 2015, when we know the organization has been around since 2001? This organization has existed for 22 years, and it seems that for 2015 the only rationale I can see is the correspondence when our federal government came into place under Liberal leadership. I would say that makes it look like it's biased towards trying to dig up some dirt on a Liberal government. We've heard opposition members on the Conservative side repeatedly say things that are untrue.

I would note for the record that Annette Verschuren was appointed by Brian Mulroney, Stephen Harper, and at least three times by Jim Flaherty, my predecessor, for different positions. With the claim that this is a Green-Liberal slush fund, as Mr. Barrett has claimed in the House of Commons multiple times, this starts to look like it's very much fishing for some goods on the government.

I think we need to consider the dates and timelines and go back to the beginning.

Mr. Chair, I know that the meeting had a hard stop at 6:38, but I'm happy to stick around if this is really what we want to be doing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I'm checking with the clerk to see when is the very latest we can continue.

We started at 3:38, and it was agreed that we have three hours, so until 6:38, but the clerk is looking into it.

In the meantime, Mr. Barrett, you can continue.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

It's important to note that with respect to the billion-dollar Liberal-Green slush fund, the Auditor General had given it a clean bill of health up to 2017. While I am interested in the documents from 2015 forward, I think that some of that has already been pronounced upon by the Auditor General. Irrespective of who appointed any of the individuals to other OIC appointments and who appointed them to the board, it doesn't matter who appointed you: If you break the rules, then you need to be held to account for that.

Ms. Verschuren was in fact appointed to the SDTC billion-dollar Green slush fund by the current Liberal government and has resigned in disgrace, so in terms of conflict of interest, the government review that they commissioned has determined that the conflict of interest policies were not followed. I think it's very important that for that period of time they reviewed, to Mr. Lemire's point, that's the period of time for which we see those recusals. The in-house counsel, the one who is advising them on conflicts of interest, was the same one who told board members to backdate their conflict of interest documents. The documents they have are highly suspicious at best.

Certainly, to go back to 2015, there is full support from me for that suggestion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I think this is an interesting question. I don't want to know whether or not requesting the documents prepared since 2015 concerns the Liberal government, but I think there are two possibilities. Either we focus on the study of the funding spent solely in the context of COVID‑19, or we conduct an evaluation from the date on which Sustainable Development Technology Canada was created.

What was the spirit of the initially proposed motion? I'd like to know the purpose of the study. I'm going to suggest the date based on what is to be studied.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Before we resume debate on Mr. Lemire's motion and turn the floor over to Mr. Turnbull, who wishes to speak, I need to verify something.

I'm a bit distracted, Mr. Lemire, because I'm trying to determine whether we should end the meeting. I have the feeling we're exceeding the resources that have been provided to us. We were told that the meeting could run to a maximum of three hours.

Out of respect for the resources of the House that were made available to us and that were increased for this evening's meeting, I'd be tempted to propose that we resume this fascinating discussion at the next meeting and that we adjourn, considering that we have already exceeded the three-hour limit. I see no opposition to that.

Ms. Méthot and Mr. Cape, thank you very much.

I also want to thank the interpreters and the analysts.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, the NDP member has nevertheless made a legitimate request to ask a final question because he missed his turn.

I apologize because it was partly my fault and I feel guilty.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You may introduce a motion when you come back.

I'm sorry, but there isn't much I can do.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You're fair, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Meeting adjourned.