Evidence of meeting #20 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
I'm talking about Cuba in this instance, sir. That doesn't faze you at all?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I talked to the workers there, and they didn't have the concerns that you have. And I'll just say that those concerns could be probably put on any country in the world.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Are you aware that to operate as a legitimate labour union in Cuba, the union must be approved by and affiliated with the Communist Party?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
They have their own rules in the constitution, as I said earlier.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Have you ever heard of the Consejo Unitario de Trabajadores Cubanos? This is the United Council of Cuban Workers. Have you ever heard of that organization?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
That's an independent labour union, nine of whose members were arrested and sentenced in 2003. They're still in jail. Those are labour union organizers who were not members of a government-approved labour union.
Are you concerned about your brothers in solidarity who are in jail for organizing an independent union?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Ed Broadbent is the former leader of the NDP. I'm sure you know who Mr. Broadbent is. Do you have respect for Mr. Broadbent and, generally speaking, in his judgment?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Let me cite what he has said about this:
There is a complete absence of civil and political rights in Cuba, including the freedom of association for an independent trade union. There are also serious cases of abuse within the prison system, which is a denial of other rights. There's a consensus on these points, and I would add that it's a consensus that I share.
He went on to say:
...I was the head of an international rights centre for six years.... I met with Mr. Castro in 1992. I met with him on a number of occasions.... I had a three-and-a-half-hour argument with him about the lack of civil and political rights in his country. I can confirm that his response was not the least bit encouraging, in terms of his acting to correct this deficiency. So from the highest Cuban authority, I can say to members of this committee...that I share completely, from a human rights perspective, their concerns about the absence of those rights in that country.
Aren't you the least bit troubled by what Mr. Broadbent, former leader of the NDP, has to say about this?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
That's Mr. Broadbent's experience. I can talk only about my experience in Cuba, and my experience has been good. The fact that the Cuban people don't have elections is foreign to me, because I come from Britain. We have elections there; we have them in Canada. That's foreign to me. However, my experience is that the people are healthy, happy, and well educated, and that's a big plus. I've been in Cuba many times and never been threatened, never been in any difficult position, which obviously Mr. Broadbent has been in.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Are either of you familiar with the organization FOCAL, which is an independent NGO dealing with issues in the Americas?
Christina Warren testified to this committee, speaking about trade unions, which is, I think, your particular background and point of emphasis. She said:
The rights of workers in Cuba, which we're obviously very concerned about as well, are also not recognized. Independent trade unions are simply not allowed. In fact, Amnesty International has suggested that any independent organizations apart from those sponsored by the state are barred from having legal status. We are very concerned about that.
Do you share her concern?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
I don't share that concern because what I've learned has come from workers down there. They're very proud of the organizations they have and are in. I heard no complaints from any of the workers. Whether I was talking to them one-on-one or in a group situation, I never heard any of those complaints.
As a matter of fact, I've heard the opposite. They feel very proud about the autonomy they have and the ability they have to work with their people in the workplace, much like we do in Canada in labour unions, free from that type of thing. So what you're saying to me is all foreign. I haven't heard it from the workers.
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
In all my conversations with people who work in Cuba, none raised any concerns.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
I can tell you, gentlemen, that when Edward R. Murrow spent five years in the Soviet Union in the 1930s reporting on the situation he never heard any complaints about the Stalinist famines or purges, so sometimes it requires looking a little beyond the Potemkin village.
Thank you. That concludes my round.
Mr. Cotler.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Mr. Chairman, you've asked all the questions I would have put. Having heard the answers, I have no other questions.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
The testimony here has been quite amazing. These are the only two witnesses I've heard who categorically deny everything that all those other witnesses have said. Perhaps their vision or contact is very narrow and they have not explored the possibilities we are questioning here. Therefore I'll excuse the witnesses.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
No, but I would beg to differ with my colleague. In the past, we have heard other accounts similar to the ones given this morning. Perhaps they were not as convincing, but we have heard similar testimony.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Jason Kenney
Thank you.
We'll thank Mr. Boyle and Mr. Hynd, if there are no further questions. Thank you very much for your time in coming here.
We're now going to suspend to go in camera.
[Proceedings continue in camera]