In my conversations with government officials, if I'm not mistaken, there have been some judicial exchanges where judges from Cuba have come to Canada to observe how our system works. The hope, of course, is that their experience would be brought back to Cuba and influence the way the legal system works there. That's an honourable and worthy goal, and I do hope it is met. The difficulty, of course, is that the case of the 75 and of those arrested since that time does not exactly indicate that those exchanges have been successful, in that there were one or two-day trials without representation by recognized lawyers and without any sort of public scrutiny.
These exchanges have been taking place, which is why we have suggested that if Canada is going to continue in this policy there is a wide continuum of what it can do, all the way from an American-style embargo, or worse, to complete engagement with Cuba without any criticism.
If there are no benchmarks by which we can measure our effectiveness.... For instance, if we're not willing to suggest as a benchmark the opening of trials to the public or the representation of offenders by recognized lawyers, or even charges being laid against them, we have no basis on which to either continue those exchanges with judges and lawyers or to let them go.