Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 13th, 2008

[Marcus Pistor, Committee Researcher]

You do have to make an additional change, in the English, to the last paragraph, if you use the word “refusal”, but that's just grammatical: “the refusal to allow international aid”, rather than “refusal to international aid”. It doesn't work, and you just have to add that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

The word “allow” is missing?

[Marcus Pistor]

It would be if you used the word “refusal” instead of “resistance”, if that were the wish of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Because Madame Barbot is suggesting—

[Marcus Pistor]

She is suggesting using the word “refusal” instead of the word “resistance”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

Given that additional consideration, does it all seem okay to you?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I think it's important for us to have something on record. That was the intent of my motion, and I'm fine with the amendments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Is there consent from the members to proceed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right.

The other item was one that Mr. Sweet put before each of us. I have to ask the question. Is there consent to look at that item now? We would need unanimous consent to proceed and to look at the item. Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

In that case, Mr. Sweet, can you make this short and sweet?

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Yes. The motion is this:

Moved that the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development hear witnesses to deliberate on the treatment of religious minorities in Pakistan and elsewhere.

The “elsewhere” means countries like Iran, Iraq, etc., where religious minorities are being severely persecuted.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Could I speak to this?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Yes, Mr. Kenney, please.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I was visited, and I'm told other members of the committee were visited, by representatives of a coalition of groups who are raising this serious set of issues. I gave my personal support to this committee's holding at least one or two hearings on this set of issues. We talked about getting into Iran a number of times, and I think this could allow for that, at least on the religious freedom side.

The reason I think this is timely and would require consideration today is that the groups that would like to present include, I believe, Ahmadiyya, Ismailis, Baha'i, Christian minorities, and others, and they are prepared to fly witnesses in from overseas, at their own expense. Of course, that takes advance time, so they would need a date from us rather than one of these last-minute scheduling things. That's why I think it needs to be considered with some dispatch.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

And I should mention, you came up to me while our witnesses were here and mentioned you were looking at a date in June.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I think they said mid to late June, and of course that's when we wrap up, late June. They've indicated to me--and I think they told me they met with Irwin Cotler and other members of the committee--that their preferred date would be mid to late June.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We have time for debate or discussion.

Madame Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

I think the proposal is particularly vague, Mr. Chair. We are talking about hearing from witnesses to deliberate on the treatment of religious minorities. I would like to have a little clarification about how we want to go about that, what religious minorities we are talking about, because it could be just fringe groups or whatever.

Is there a way to get some information about that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Sweet or Mr. Kenney, perhaps.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I think, Mr. Chair, Mr. Kenney already mentioned the Baha'i in Iran and Christians in Iraq. We have situations where there have been not only persecution but mass killings as far as Christians are concerned, and incarcerations as far as Baha'i are concerned in Iran, so they're going to present their case about what's been a continuation of persecution toward them. After we hear their evidence, we can decide how to deal with that in the future.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

If I could just add, essentially we've agreed in the past that when witnesses are coming through town on a particular issue of general interest to us, we would try to accommodate them on our schedule, and they're saying they'd like to bring a coalition of different witnesses from different religious backgrounds on a date that works for us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

May I assume then that the purpose of the motion is to allow us to have a hearing that would take place likely on a single date in June, and the reason for wording it this way is that the witnesses would include some people from Pakistan and some from one or perhaps two of the surrounding countries?

I don't know if that satisfies you, Madame Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

I heard that it was about massacres. I would really like to know what they want to talk about. I have some examples, but I really do not know why we have to hear them now, or why them and not others. I do not understand. If it is just to accommodate a group that wants to be here, I do not see what is gained by hearing them.