Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

I can tell you that's a false sense of security, because security has not actually improved in Colombia, and the figures on crimes can't actually be an evidence of this. Even though you say that in Medellin people are walking on the streets, there are many fears, probably as much as elsewhere.

Most communities feel very fearful in all cities in Colombia, and in different places, especially the youth. For example, very recently, the Black Eagles—the new paramilitary groups that we have in the country—sent threats saying that any youths found on the streets after 10 p.m. would be killed, as well sex workers, gays, and social leaders. Also, the media has sort of made all of this new news, saying that the country is more secure.

As to the president's popularity, I think this is not really true. If you go out to the rural areas, to the committees, you will see that the president is not so popular as you would believe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Madame Thi Lac, please.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you for being with us today, Ms. Morales. I had the opportunity to meet you at our caucus meeting earlier this week. I wanted to say that you show great courage. We know that you might suffer reprisals.

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

Gracias.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I also want to follow up on the question from my colleague, who said that the country was more secure. You were about to say that there is more intimidation, and this means that people are more afraid, they stay home and live in fear. This actually creates a false feeling of security in your country.

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

Yes, I think that one of the main reasons is fear. On the other hand, I also believe that the figures are being manipulated by the government and the media. It may be true that in some instances there are a lesser number of homicides, but not in terms of trade unionists, for example. At the same time, we find a big increase in the forced disappearances of people, in the number of extrajudicial executions, as well as torture. And, I repeat, I think the government is manipulating these data.

Very recently, even at the level of DAS, which is the national security department, I would like to repeat that it has been proven they are following and tapping the phones of members of the Supreme Court and other important officials, as well as the members of the opposition. So I think this doesn't speak much for security in the country.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I have one last question.

You know that Canada is currently wanting to ratify a free trade agreement with Colombia. I am the member for a riding where there is a settlement program for refugees from Colombia, where a large number of Colombians have settled, although it is a rural riding. I am very aware of the fact that many of your fellow citizens have had to leave the country involuntarily and flee Colombia, to settle in my fine riding.

In fact, it seems to me that ratifying this kind of agreement is as if the government were "talking out of both sides of its mouth". On the one hand, it says it recognizes people whose human rights have not been respected in Colombia, and accepts them here in Quebec and Canada, which take them in. On the other hand, it agrees to trade with a country that does not respect human rights.

I have made a motion here in this committee. Do you not think it is in fact very urgent that we consider that question?

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

Yes, I respect Canada, and I'm sure the Canadian government is respected by many, because it is known for respecting human rights. However, if Canada ratifies this agreement with Colombia, it will be backing the regime of human rights violators.

I would like to invite you all to come to Colombia and see firsthand what is happening there. Thousands of youths are being killed. Human rights defenders are being killed.

I am standing here now without my father because he was killed. Many other youth have lost their parents, their brothers, their sisters, not many years ago--within this administration, a few years ago--just because they wanted to build a better Colombia. I am not the only one who would tell you this. You can speak with many of the human rights organizations, human rights defenders, indigenous organizations, peasants.

The people of Colombia also oppose this agreement for that reason.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right, as I turn the microphone over to Mr. Marston, I'll just observe that I won't be seeing the clock as being 2 p.m. until we've gone through all our questioners.

Mr. Marston, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly appreciate the position you've just taken. I want to thank the committee for allowing this witness to come forward.

You would not necessarily be aware of this, but in 2008 a House of Commons international trade committee said we should not be signing an agreement with Colombia until their human rights record had been examined. I'm sure you're aware the U.S. Congress also blocked a potential deal, and Mr. Obama said he wouldn't respond until such time as there's a definite improvement in their human rights record.

Perhaps, in some ways, when Canada signed this draft agreement with Colombia it helped to highlight some of the abuses. In 1996-97 I met an individual from Colombia who was one of the people in the occupation of the Coca-Cola plant. He went back to Colombia and two weeks later was taken off a bus and was shot in front of his family. So many of us here have a great sympathy for your cause.

I'd like to hear your reaction when you first heard a potential agreement was signed with Canada.

Then there's a second question, and this is going to be very personal, but I think that's the purpose of your visit to Canada. If this president is renewed, what is your personal safety when you return to Colombia?

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

When I first heard that there was a possibility that Canada would sign a trade agreement with Colombia, my reaction, of course, was one of deep pain.

I have always felt this deep admiration for Canada. I know Canada as a peacemaking country, as a country that is known throughout the world for respecting human rights. I know that there are many lines of cooperation with Colombia, especially through your membership in the G-24. This group has also pressured Colombia to meet the recommendations, the international recommendations, in terms of human rights.

So this is a source of concern for me. It's like you are turning your back on the Colombian people. If you sign this agreement, you'll be showing support for a government that is a violator of human rights.

As to my own personal life, I have been threatened many times. We have received, at the Colectivo de Abogados, recent threats to our lives.

President Álvaro Uribe himself has said publicly that I am an enemy of the country when I come to the point of describing what is happening in my country. I only want to say that I am not an enemy of my country. On the contrary, if that's what I do, it is because I love my country. I love Colombia. I love my homeland.

It is because I love my homeland that I am here speaking before you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Sweet, please.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Mr. Chairman, the first thing I would like to say is that Madam Morales sits here in front of us with obviously great passion, probably for many reasons, but obviously one big reason is that she has lost her father.

First off, Madam Morales, on behalf of the committee, I just want to give you our deepest sympathies in that regard.

I don't have any specific questions, but I would say this. We were studying in this meeting the UPR. Half of the UN countries have been studied now. The other half are yet to come. I would suggest that all of them will have reports that will have flaws in human rights. I would suggest to you that a large percentage of those countries trade with each other, as well.

The notion of owning another person's fallibilities because you trade with them could be taken to very broad dimensions. If we go down that road, the whole notion of trading with a nation....

I understand the feelings around here. I understand the battle for human rights. In fact, we're all on this committee because we care deeply about human rights. But I have to say--to the committee, to our witness, to you, Mr. Chairman--that the notion that our country would be demeaned by some actions that we feel would have benchmarks to try to provoke some action for better human rights is a notion that I just cannot let stand before the committee. That certainly would not be the motivation of the government; in fact, quite the contrary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Let's translate that for the benefit of our witness.

[Victoria Giraldo, Interpreter]

I already did.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

In that case, is there any commentary?

[Yessika Hoyos Morales]

I understand what you say, and I understand that you may not wish to stop trade between the two countries. This trade has always existed and will most probably continue to exist, but is trade more valuable than human lives? At which point can we say this is the case? Because we're talking here about the lives of indigenous peoples, trade unionists, and many other Colombians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much.

We appreciate the patience of all members of the committee in staying a little later than usual and also their flexibility in meeting with the witness.

In particular, to our witness Senora Morales, let me say that we very much appreciate you coming here, and your translator as well.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.