Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Order.

This is the 31^st meeting of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

We have with us today a series of witnesses from DFAIT to assist us in our ongoing study of human rights in Iran. Our three guests today include Jeffrey McLaren, acting director general for Middle East and northern Africa affairs, and director of gulf and Maghreb relations. There's a title for you. And we have David Angell, director general of the international organizations bureau; and Shawn Caza, deputy director of nuclear cooperation and compliance.

They are going to meet with us for our first hour and then we'll thank them. With the permission of the committee, I'd then like to move in camera to take care of a couple of things. We have some correspondence. We have at least one outstanding motion, and we have to think a little bit about future business. It is a good opportunity to do this, rather than having a separate meeting scheduled for that purpose.

Without further ado, I will turn things over to our witnesses. I understand that our clerk has already spoken to you about how this works. I will let you give your presentation.

[Jeffrey McLaren, Director, Gulf and Maghreb Relations, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Thank you very much.

We welcome the opportunity to appear before the committee today to discuss the human rights situation in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

This is an issue of continued grave concern to the Department of Foreign Affairs, and I am pleased to have the opportunity to outline some of the many steps we have been taking to promote human rights in that country.

As requested by this committee, I will be speaking to the evolution of Canadian-Iranian relations; Canadian policy regarding human rights in Iran, including in the post-elections context; Iran's nuclear program; and Iranian actions in the region.

Canadian relations with Iran have been governed by our Controlled Engagement Policy since 1996. We instituted this policy because of the Iranian government's opposition to the Middle East peace process, its support for terrorist organizations, its nuclear program and its human rights record. The policy placed strict limitations on contacts with Iran. For instance, Iran is not permitted to open consulates in Canada, there are no direct air links to Canada and export controls are applied to sensitive goods. All programs of cooperation with the Iranian government were also halted.

On May 17, 2005, Canada tightened its Controlled Engagement Policy as a result of Iran's failure to address the murder of Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi. Mrs. Kazemi was detained and later murdered in Evin prison in Iran by regime officials. Canada took the decision to limit contacts with the Iranian government to three issues: the case of Mrs. Kazemi and other consular cases, human rights, and Iran's nuclear program.

In 2008, we expanded the policy to include regional security issues, given our concerns about Iran's behaviour in Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, Iraq and Afghanistan. Moving forward, Canada has made it clear to Iran that improvements in bilateral relations are dependent upon progress in these areas.

As demonstrated by our Controlled Engagement Policy, Canada has serious concerns regarding the state of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran. The government of Iran has continually violated the basic human rights of their own population through pervasive abuse and denial of fundamental freedoms. These violations include the execution of minors, the persecution of ethnic and religious minorities such as the Baha'i, suppression of women's rights, and restrictions on the media and freedom of expression.

As we all witnessed, the already poor state of human rights in Iran deteriorated sharply following the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on June 12, 2009. Allegations of fraud by members of the opposition spurred mass demonstrations, and Iranian authorities responded with violent crackdowns and further repression of fundamental human rights. Opposition members charge that more than 70 people have been killed. There have been numerous accusations of rape and torture of protesters while in government custody; further restrictions on freedoms of expression and association; and unjust detentions without charges of Iranians and foreign nationals alike, including, until this week, Canadian-Iranian Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.

The post-election situation is deeply troubling for Canada. Canada has maintained that the allegations of discrepancies in the June 12 presidential elections are serious and need to be answered. Prime Minister Harper issued two statements condemning the use of violence in the crackdown on protesters by Iranian security forces. The Minister of Foreign Affairs also issued statements condemning the use of violence by Iranian security forces, and has called upon Iran to fully respect all of its human rights obligations, both in law and practice. He has called on Iran to conduct a thorough and transparent investigation into the allegations surrounding the elections. Canada also joined the G-8 on July 8 in expressing its concerns regarding the elections.

Canada has been, and continues to be, a vocal proponent of improving the human rights situation in Iran. In addition to implementing and tightening our policy of controlled engagement, Canada has routinely publicly criticized the Government of Iran for its blatant disregard of basic human rights. Last month at the United Nations General Assembly, the Minister of Foreign Affairs along with the entire Canadian delegation boycotted the speech of President Ahmadinejad in response to his ongoing and inflammatory denial of the Holocaust, his antagonism and hostility towards the people of Israel, and his complete disdain for the human rights of the Iranian people.

Canada has been a leader in international fora. For the past six years, Canada has successfully spearheaded a cross-regional, multinational effort to adopt a resolution at the United Nations General Assembly highlighting the deprived state of human rights in Iran. This resolution holds the Iranian government to account for its systemic and persistent human rights violations; it sets out specific actions to be taken by Iran to rectify its human rights situation; it stimulates debate; and it forces Iran to account for its record. While the Iranian government has shown no improvement in its human rights situation over this period, the successful adoption of this resolution nonetheless sends a clear message that the international community is closely monitoring events in Iran and that the Iranian people are not alone in their struggle to realize their fundamental human rights. Human rights activists have repeatedly told us that this UN resolution is a valuable part of their campaign for greater freedom.

The case of the detained Canadian-Iranian Newsweek journalist, Maziar Bahari, has been a priority for Canada in our current dealings with Iran. On Saturday, Minister of Foreign Affairs Lawrence Cannon issued the following statement:

It is with great relief that we welcome the release of Maziar Bahari from prison in Iran. The Government of Canada shares in the joy of Mr. Bahari's family, friends, colleagues and countrymen, and hopes that he will soon be able to join his wife for the birth of their first child.

I'm very pleased to inform the committee that this morning Mr. Bahari left Iran and has arrived in London, and is with his wife as we speak.

The Government of Canada has been steadfast in pressing for his release since he was first arrested. His situation was complicated by his dual nationality, which is not recognized by the Iranian authorities. Canada used all diplomatic and other channels available to gain access to Mr. Bahari, to press for his release, and to ensure his legal rights were respected. The Minister of Foreign Affairs met with his Iranian counterpart on August 25 in Istanbul to demand Mr. Bahari's immediate release and for Canadian consular access to him. Department of Foreign Affairs officials once again reiterated this message when we met with Iran's chargé d'affaires on September 22. On September 24, Minister Cannon released a joint statement with his U.S. counterpart, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in which Canada and the U.S. asked Iran to positively resolve the cases of all Canadians and Americans in Iranian custody, including Mr. Bahari. Canada will continue to press for the release of all those who remain unjustly detained.

Finally, the Government of Canada condemns the terrorist attack in Iran's Sistan and Baluchistan Province on October 18. We condemn all political violence and we hope that the perpetrators of this heinous act will be found and brought to justice.

Canada also has serious concerns about Iran's nuclear program. For six years, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency has reported that Iran is not living up to its commitments of transparency and cooperation, particularly regarding unresolved nuclear activities with possible military dimensions.

Canada was deeply troubled by the revelation three weeks ago that Iran has been building a covert Iranian enrichment facility for several years. This revelation is one more example of Iran's continued refusal to meet its obligations under UN Security Council resolutions and IAEA requirements, and we've called for the IAEA to investigate.

Iran's actions threaten regional stability and international peace and security. Canada hopes that continued talks between the P-5 plus one, the permanent five members of the Security Council and Germany, building on their meeting in Geneva on October 1, will address the continued dishonesty of Iran's nuclear program as a matter of priority to restore confidence that has been severely jeopardized by the Iranian regime.

As part of Canada's controlled engagement policy and our counter-proliferation efforts, we have stopped active trade promotion with Iran and Export Development Canada has ceased entering into new business with Iran. In addition, Canada has fully implemented its international obligations under the United Nations Security Council resolutions 1737, 1747, and 1803 by imposing sanctions against Iran.

These sanctions include an assets freeze against designated individuals and entities; an export ban on designated goods of proliferation concern; an import ban on arms and designated goods; a prohibition on the provision to any person in Iran of technical assistance, financial services, brokerage and other services related to designated goods; and a prohibition on property, financial assistance, and investment related to designated goods.

Finally, Iran is playing a troubling role in the wider Middle East. Its activities in the region, particularly its support for listed terrorist entities such as Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah, have long constituted serious obstacles to peace in the Middle East. Canada continues to underline the need for Iran to support international peace and stability efforts in the region. Iran's regional role is something that Canada is ready to discuss with Iran as part of our controlled engagement policy.

I will end my presentation there and turn it back over to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for appearing.

Although I'm not on this committee, I have a great deal of interest in this topic. I have four quick questions.

First, we talk about controlled engagement. Can you comment on why the Vice-President of Iran made a private visit to Canada earlier this year? What constitutes a private visit under controlled engagement?

Second, can you outline for us any comments with regard to the Iran Accountability Act, which was proposed by Irwin Cotler in June? We are a signatory to the 1948 Convention on Genocide, which was undertaken to deal with the prevention of genocide and punish those who incite it.

On the Bahá'ís, do you have any comments with regard to the current situation, the systematic removal of Bahá'ís from academic institutions, schools, the armed forces, etc.?

On Russia, it would seem to me that any multilateral approach in this region dealing with the Iranians cannot be successful unless the Russians are on board. Do you see them playing a helping role, whether on nuclear development or human rights?

That's a lot of questions, but I thought I'd get them on the table.

[Jeffrey McLaren]

On the controlled engagement policy, Iran's vice-president applied for a visa to enter Canada. He qualified under the provisions of entry to Canada. He had no meetings with any member of the Canadian government. That was a specific policy choice made, that if he was coming for a private visit, it would be a private visit. He qualified under our entry rules as any other citizen. There is nothing in the controlled engagement policy that talks about visas or preventing people who have legitimate access to Canada from entering.

I will come back to question number two in a moment.

On the Bahá'ís, this has long been a priority of the Canadian government, to try to protect this community. We have a very close working relationship with the Bahá'í community of Canada. I understand they came before your committee earlier this year. So we work very closely with them.

Their situation in Iran is probably as bad as any identifiable group in Iran. Even Iranians who are of the reformist bent and who believe their country needs to correct its policies have a blind spot towards the Bahá'í. This goes back to their origins as emerging out of the Islamic faith and following a new prophet, which runs counter to the provisions of Islam. That has made them a specific target in Iran. They are called apostates and they are viewed as threatening Islamic society.

All of this, as we all know, is just nonsense. They are very loyal citizens to whatever country they live in. They are excellent citizens when it comes to education and working in the community. They are model citizens both in Iran and in Canada. So that's something we've kept driving home with them.

In the education system they're being blocked from going to universities, which is a tragedy for Bahá'ís, as they see education as being one of the core principles they must abide by.

In our human rights resolutions before the UN General Assembly over the last six years we have always put forward the case for Iran to respect the rights of its Bahá'í citizens. And going forward into the future, the Canadian government will continue to raise the issues of the Bahá'í and to seek that they be allowed the same rights and privileges as all other Iranian citizens.

Concerning the role of Russia, Russia has been a very active partner in the P-5 plus one. They have supported UN Security Council imposition of sanctions on three different occasions. Given their veto on the Security Council, it is essential that the broader international community work with Russia. They have been cooperative to date. There have been differences among Russia and some of the other members about how far to go, but our assessment is that Russia shares the same concerns we do about Iran's long-term nuclear ambitions and the fact that Russia has no desire to see Iran develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Going forward, there will continue to be a lot of negotiations. We're not at the table for most of those negotiations, but our understanding is that there is a great deal of cooperation among the members of the P-5 plus one.

May I just ask you to repeat the question about the Iran Accountability Act?

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Since we are a signatories to the 1948 genocide convention, and the act itself is to hold not only Iran accountable, but also Canada in terms of blocking what we were actually talking about, can you make any comments with regard to how you would see that act coming into force?

[Jeffrey McLaren]

Unfortunately, I am not a specialist on that, and I would require a bit more of a view from our legal side. I will endeavour to get back to you with an answer on that.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

If you could, I'd appreciate that, and maybe in the next round I'll ask you about the freezing of assets of the Iranian leadership and business people in Canada.

Also, I am really perplexed about the vice-president's visit, because when you have a private visit and you meet members of the diaspora in Canada.... Seventy-five percent of the people in my riding who come from Iran get rejected by the embassy in Tehran, yet the vice-president of Iran gets a visa to come here, and he clearly was here on a political mission. Every report that's come forward has indicated that it was private. Not meeting with Canadian officials is fine, but the fact is that he was able to spread whatever he wanted while he was here. In terms of having a controlled engagement, it seems a bit odd that we would issue such a visa.

And by the way, I did write to the minister. I got a letter back, but I wasn't happy with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Angell, we're actually out of time here. If you can be very brief in your response, though, please go ahead.

[David Angell, Director General, International Organizations Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Thank you, Chair.

To expand a little bit on the question with regard to the Baha'i, I would just observe, in addition to Mr. McLaren's comments about Canada having flagged this issue in successive human rights resolutions, that we've also flagged it before the Human Rights Council in Geneva.

The minister issued a statement with regard to the detention of the seven members of the Baha'i leadership, but in that statement the minister also called for the Iranian authorities to cease the harassment of members of the Baha'i faith. This was a statement by the minister of last May.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Madame Thi Lac, vous avez la parole.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for being here today. I apologize for being late.

My first question is for Mr. Caza.

One of the proposals in the draft report that our steering committee is currently working on is that we use Canadian democracy to urge Iran to discontinue its nuclear program. Knowing that Iran has since suggested meetings between foreign and Iranian nuclear experts, I would like to hear your expert opinion.

Do you think that Canada should take the position put forward in the draft report, or should it join those countries that favour an open-minded approach to these meetings?

[Shawn Caza, Deputy Director, Nuclear Cooperation and Compliance, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

I'm sorry; I misunderstood the first part, about which report you were speaking of.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Caza, it's actually a reference to the draft report we're working on. You wouldn't be familiar with it.

Actually, this provides me with the opportunity to remind members of the committee that strictly speaking, the report, while it's a draft, isn't supposed to be mentioned publicly. Its contents, at any rate, we aren't supposed to mention publicly.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I will reword my question to focus solely on the second point. Do you not believe that Canada should join the ranks of those countries that are open to a meeting between Iranian and foreign nuclear experts?

[Shawn Caza]

I think we've always been supportive of dialogue with Iran on this. As Mr. McLaren said, one of the areas we are still in discussion with the Iranians on, under the controlled or limited engagement policy, is the nuclear file. We don't have any direct talks with Iran right now on the nuclear issue because we have deferred to our allies, who have under way a process--I'm sure you're familiar with it--known as the P-5 plus one. As Mr. McLaren said, that's the permanent five members of the Security Council plus Germany.

Currently there's an even more focused dialogue among Russia, France, the United States, and Iran, with the IAEA's help, to try to broker a possible resolution right now to the question of enrichment and the fuel requirements that Iran has.

We support this process of our allies fully. We hope it leads to increased dialogue. But it's clear that the Iranians need to first come forward to the IAEA with a little more information clarifying all the outstanding questions the agency has and that all the member states have regarding their program.

As I said, we stand willing to support the activity of our allies, whether that leads to increased dialogue or whether, given possible other choices by the Iranians, it leads to other activities.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You mentioned supporting the efforts of our allies, but I want to know specifically whether you would be willing not only to support those countries that favour this approach, but also to join a coalition with them.

[Shawn Caza]

Certainly when it comes to the discussions of the P-5 plus one and the current Pentagonal talks, as they're called, we've made it clear to our friends in there that we're willing to participate, but they're the ones who are setting the parameters. We can't exactly force ourselves into these talks.

They all know we stand ready, as does the IAEA and the director general himself. We're ready in any dialogue or discussion that's going to be had. But we don't want to work counter to what not only our friends and allies but the IAEA and the United Nations Security Council have seen as the best way forward to resolving this issue.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

That answers my question. Thank you very much.

Mr. Angell, is there a difference between the position that Canada considers to be the one held by Israeli leaders and that of the Israeli people?

[David Angell]

Mr. Chair, are we talking about the people and leaders of Israel or Iran?

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I meant the people and leaders of Iran. My apologies.

[David Angell]

Right. Pursuant to our policy and UN resolutions, we have a commitment that is guided by the actions of Iran's leaders. Our request that human rights be respected is directed to the country's leaders. In essence, we are asking the government to support the rights of its own people. There has not been any such commitment in terms of the Iranian people.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

How serious of a threat would you say Iran poses to Israel's security? To what degree is that threat heightened by anti-Israeli comments by Iran's leaders?

[Jeffrey McLaren]

It's very clear that the Israeli leadership takes the threat of Iran very seriously, as does the Government of Canada.

When the President of Iran makes his outrageous statements denying the Holocaust and other anti-Israel comments, Canada stands up and we condemn those comments. Just last month, the Minister of Foreign Affairs boycotted the speech of President Ahmadinejad to the United Nations General Assembly as a response to the fact that we find his comments and his behaviour contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and also contrary to diplomatic decency.

The threat they pose to their own people and all these reasons, we've made it very clear, are unacceptable to Canada. We support Israel, we are very attentive, and we share many of the same concerns Israel has about the threat posed by Iran.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Madam Thi Lac. Your time ran out.

We'll go to Mr. Marston, please.