Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 8th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We are the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. Today, Tuesday, June 8, 2010, is our 21st meeting.

This afternoon we are hearing four witnesses from Belarus: Jaroslav Romanchuk, president of the Scientific Research Mises Center; Andrey Dmitriev, from the international office of the United Civil Party of Belarus; Anatoly Liabedzka, the chairman of the shadow government of the National Committee of United Democratic Forces of Belarus; and, finally, Vladimir Prokofyevich Neklyayev, director of the Forward Movement Research and Education Establishment of Belarus.

Maybe I can ask you to begin, Mr. Romanchuk.

[Jaroslav Romanchuk, President, Analytical Center ''Strategy'', Scientific Research Mises Center]

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I am honoured to testify here. It's a great pleasure to be in Canada. We are looking forward to telling you what's going on in our country.

I'm running for president this year. It's a unique chance to deal with a couple of issues that are of very great concern to all of us.

First of all, it's about human rights and freedoms. The Lukashenko regime has failed to deliver on even minor liberalization of human rights and freedom issues. The latest local election campaign proved that things have become even worse.

On May 17, the huge, aggressive assault on the movement “Tell the Truth!” proved that Lukashenko has chosen to carry out a campaign based on the use of crude force rather than constructive dialogue with all political forces. So for us, a presidential campaign is another chance to improve dramatically the situation with regard to human rights.

Secondly, the regime has not delivered on the improving of election legislation, so there are huge risks that this particular campaign will also lead to massive falsification of the results of the elections. That's why we're determined to defend our victory in the face of the governmental repression.

Another issue that is very important for us is to take the opportunity of the presidential election campaign to improve the situation with regard to freedom of expression. Journalists are being prosecuted on a regular basis. People are jailed for their civic activism. Let me just give you the example of Andrey Bandarenka and Victor Aftohovitch, who have been in prison for five to six years for their participation in the parliamentary election campaign and their attempts to resist the authorities.

Finally, the presidential election campaign is a chance for us to end Belarus being a source of external danger. It's one thing for the Belarusian regime to be a danger to the Belarusian people; it's another thing that the regime poses dangers to the international community by dealing with such states as Iran, Syria, and other countries. Most of these deals are not transparent and we'd like to be back within the international community. We'd like to join the ranks of the Council of Europe. That is why our campaign is aimed at democratizing Belarus and at bringing freedom to our country.

We look forward to the support of Canada, which has a unique role nowadays as the country that can afford and does have policies based on values rather than on pragmatism. We look forward to enhancing cooperation.

My colleagues will add further testimony.

[Anatoly Liabedzka, Chairman, Shadow Government, National Committee of United Democratic Forces of Belarus]

The international community really underestimates the problem in Belarus. For most politicians in the Euro-Atlantic region, the problem is not on their agenda. They see it as no more than a local problem that does not cross the Belarus border. That is a misconception. Belarus is a real laboratory experimenting with the ideology, or rather the authoritarianism, that we call “Lukashism”. “Lukashism” is a mix of communism, fascism and Latin-American populism. Today, it is Belarus' key export. It must be recognized that the regime is very popular in the post-Soviet states. Russia and other post-Soviet states are following Belarus' example. This is a dangerous trend to which the west pays insufficient attention.

What is happening in Belarus? For a number of years, Belarus has been in a state of real cold civil war. A group of heavyweights, the Lukashenko clan, controls affairs in Belarus using the power of the state. They destroy any political alternative. This neo-Soviet state, for that is what it is, [Editorial note: inaudible] all civil rights. The state, in the form of the Lukashenko clan, holds the monopoly over political, economic and social rights.

A social contract does not exist in Belarus. Neither does the rule of law. Justice comes from Lukashenko. That is why [Editorial note: inaudible] an independent judiciary. Belorussians have no say in running the state. Power is always in the hands of the same person. Lukashenko's authoritarian regime has been in existence for some time. Lukashenko effectively bans any political challenge. Opposition members cannot be elected without approval locally and from the state.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am ashamed to say that Belarus is Europe's last dictatorship. I know that Belarus and its people deserve better. We have a right to democracy based on European standards and values. The Belarus issue must be resolved in Belarus. No one can solve our problems for us. No one from Lithuania or from Canada can come and build a democracy for us. It is our country and our responsibility. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay, thank you.

Were you going to continue, Mr. Neklyayev? Please do.

[Vladimir Prokofyevich Neklyayev, Director, Forward Movement Research and Education Establishment of Belarus]

Thank you.

I'm Vladimir Neklyayev, the poet, and I have been forced to get into politics, which is not something that I am used to, because the political regime has brought me and the national culture to a critical level, including the national language and the civil society as a whole.

I am the leader of the campaign called “Speak the Truth!”, which was created three months ago. It's a civil society organization that was created just before the presidential campaign. Speak the Truth is an organization that was attacked in a form of banditry; they took away all of our of assets and our office. They even took away our money. They forced us to break up. They arrested me and also Andrey Dmitriev, who is here as well. Under pressure from the international community, they let us go, and somehow the situation was changed.

It is impossible to register a single NGO or political movement that has its own dissenting opinion that goes against that of the government. It is impossible to work in such organizations without being oppressed and without worrying about your own safety and that of your near and dear ones.

Our juridical status, the juridical group that we worked with, was also closed down, so when we come back to Belarus, our actions will be seen as the actions of an unregistered, unlawful group, because the group that was registered before has been disbanded, so our lives and our country are now in danger.

On the eve of new presidential elections, we would like to play an information role. We don't have the media to get our word out to the people.

We would also like to have some assistance. We need a place to work and equipment to work with. We need to give help to the families of those who were oppressed, because they have been put in prison, and their families would like to know how they are and how they are managing in prison.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Neklyayev.

Mr. Dmitiriev.

[Andrey Dmitriev, Chief and Secretary, International Office of the United Civil Party of Belarus]

My name is Andrey Dmitriev and I am also involved in the Speak the Truth campaign. Today I would like to tell you here about what is happening with religious rights and minority rights and to talk a bit about civil society.

Today the situation in Belarus is such that the government wants a monopoly, in essence, on everything that keeps man alive, religion being no exception. So for many years, approximately eight now, it's been impossible to register any organizations. All religious organizations that exist in Belarus constantly run into problems with the powers that be.

For instance, the Protestant community in Minsk has for a year now been battling the municipal executive committee because they lost their building to the municipality. This building was bought by them. It was like an old cowshed, but they fixed it up and put in everything they needed. As soon as the building looked attractive, the municipality decided to take it away.

More than 100 people went on a month-long hunger strike to keep the municipality from taking this building away. They were able to hold onto the building for a while, but when the emotions quietened down, the municipality went back to its old ways and tried to take the building away again. This is what's happening across the whole country.

The government says that Orthodoxy is the main religion in the country and all of the others are unequal, which means that the Orthodox community has an agreement with the army, with the schools. They have an agreement with all the government institutions for support, whereas the Catholic, the Protestant, the Jewish, and other religious communities have no access, not even relative to what the Orthodox community has. Also, it is becoming a problem to register any new organization, because the government sees any religious community as just one more association, one more group, that they cannot control and that could quite possibly not support the policies of the existing powers.

There is the same problem with the ethnic minorities. The government divided up the Polish community. They were allowed to receive registration and assets; this is the former union of the Polish in Belarus. Those who had agreements... The Polish association had its assets taken away, and they were no longer allowed to dissent, because they are a group that speaks of freedom of association and freedom of speech and their leaders are constantly being oppressed. Their activists are constantly involved in criminal proceedings. They are constantly being shown on TV in a discrediting light.

And today, the government, although it says that it would like to resolve the issue, is doing nothing. The only way for the existing government to resolve problems is to force people to agree with it through force, through prison, and through other forms of pressure.

The same is happening with civil society. The problem is that the only way, at least the way the government understands civil society, is that it is young people and union groups who support the government... As soon as civil society tries to create even a small ten-person group that wants to do something of their own free will, there comes an order from the government that says this is war against the government. It's impossible to register organizations, and it's surprising what happens.

You need to register your organization. To do so, you have to go to the Ministry of Justice. They say no, right? Then, under the criminal code, which has been passed by that very same government, you can end up in prison for up to two years just because you did something on behalf of your organization. So the government is trying to control us. It's trying to control everything we do.

I will give you the example of the Speak the Truth campaign. We spent some time in prison and we want you to know what we did. We said nothing against the government. We said, “Let's put together a petition at a local level and let's just deal with some local problems”. They were problems like, I don't know, fixing the roads...

Three months later, on May 18, in 22 cities, the KGB came to see our activists. They searched. They did personal searches. They took everything out of the apartments and took everything out of their offices. Why? It was because the government is not prepared to be and does not wish to be liberalized at all. It does not want any change to happen.

In conclusion, I would like to thank all of you for giving us this unique opportunity to speak before you and to tell you about Belarus in the hope that you will be able to help us with international support from Canada.

I would like to thank Michael Mostyn and his organization for their assistance in organizing this.

Thank you very much. We're ready for your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses.

We have enough time to allow for seven-minute rounds. We'll begin with the Liberals.

Go ahead, Mr. Silva, please.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for their presentations.

I think what came out of the presentation was a quite disturbing picture of what's taking place in Belarus in terms of the lack of freedom of expression, including the arrest and prosecution of several journalists, the freedom that is not being given to certain ethnic minorities and religious minorities, and the upcoming elections and the problems that might come out of that.

I have a few questions. One of them is around the Council of Europe. Have you been in touch with or involved at all with the Council of Europe and has there been any type of declaration by the Council of Europe in relation to your situations?

Second, has there been an international call for election monitors, particularly from Canada? Would the European Community also be sending election monitors?

Third, what would you like directly from us as parliamentarians? What role do you think we could play in terms of helping the situation within your country?

[Anatoly Liabedzka]

A discussion on Belarus was held in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. I, as well as the Belarus authorities, took part in this discussion as the only country outside of the Council of Europe.

The conclusion from the discussions was a decision to freeze contacts between the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and the Belarus government at the highest level. This is in reaction to the refusal by the official government in Minsk to put an end to the death sentence or to put a moratorium on the death sentence. That is something we see in the resolutions of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

One is regard to the situation in Belarus on the actions of something called the escadron of death, i.e., the death squadron. A couple of years back, several branches of the secret services and the police ministries organized the kidnapping and execution of several people who planned to take part in the presidential campaign.

It is a special resolution that names specific names--representatives of the secret services and the police--and they intend to hold an independent, objective investigation into these criminal acts. However, a number of years have passed, and there is now a very realistic threat that the death squadrons may raise their ugly heads again.

One of the results of our visit might be that the Parliament of Canada would be able to take a number of actions before the presidential campaign. We have a stake in creating a special group of members of Parliament for a democratic Belarus, which would monitor the situation and could come into contact with civil society and with the political opposition in Belarus. We also have a stake in having direct relationships with the political parties, in signing agreements with them.

As for observation by the OSCE, we are definitely very interested in having the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly delegation having maximum representation by members of the Canadian Parliament, who could then come to Belarus during the electoral presidential campaign and be unbiased observers.

Merci beaucoup.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Silva.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I think you gave us some very good answers in terms of the role of the Council of Europe.

I have a further question regarding what you would like the Parliament of Canada to do. Specifically, with the upcoming elections coming soon, is there a more active role that you feel we could be taking? That's the question I'd like to have answered.

[Jaroslav Romanchuk]

A very important issue would be to set up a parliamentary group, Friends for Belarus, that would consist of members of the Canadian Parliament. That group would take some initiatives, initiate making statements, or hold fact-finding missions to our country so that Canadian people and members of the government are well aware of what's going there.

Secondly, we would welcome the formation of a Belarusian-Canadian group or society that would consist not only of members of Parliament, but also of representatives of different communities and NGOs, that would deal with broader issues, such as the issue that we touch upon in the Speak the Truth campaign. It would inform entrepreneurs of the economic opportunities in our countries and deal with the issues of civil society in general. This kind of coordination would be welcome.

In addition, something that has been very practical, and Parliament would have a role in it, is to urge CIDA to open a special technical program for Belarus to provide assistance in implementing different initiatives. If we do this, it would definitely boost Canadian-Belarusian cooperation. We would definitely put Canada in a unique perspective, because now, sadly, the issue of human rights and values-based politics is a rare thing.

Canada is unique in carrying out its politics based on values. Canada does not depend on Russian gas and oil, it doesn't have Russian corrupt money, and it's not tied up like America in agreements with Russia on Afghanistan and Iran. So it definitely is unique, and it can really, for the first time in history, play a major role in changing the situation of our country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mr. Dorion, if you please.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, gentlemen.

You are giving us more information about a regime that is frankly very little known in the west. Your description sends chills up the spine, so to speak. Basically, power is concentrated in the hands of one person.

First, in terms of the nature of Belarus society, are you finding what they found in Russia, that private concerns have taken over the capital that was once in the hands of the state? Or is it still a state economy? I think that this is a very pertinent question because he who holds economic power generally holds the rest directly or indirectly.

Could you tell me about Belarus' economic system? You also mentioned the close ties with the government of Russia. A few years ago, we heard media reports that President Lukashenko was practically advocating a merger of the two countries, of Russia and Belarus. That plan did not work.

Could you shed some light on why Russia declined, as it were, to swallow up a smaller neighbour. It is not clear what danger this could have for Russia, but perhaps you see one. If so, could you explain it?

Perhaps it would help if the pressure we exert were not only on the Lukashenko regime, but also on Russia itself. How helpful do you think that would be?

[Jaroslav Romanchuk]

Thank you for your questions.

Belarus is predominantly a centrally planned economy, with 80% of all assets belonging to the state. You are absolutely right to say that it's a miniature of the Soviet Union. We have a central planning body that plans all of the economy. We have a president who appoints even the manager of a small plant. We have a situation of total price controls.

At the same time, the regime was lucky to get a huge amount of support from Russia. It amounted to about 15% or 20% of GDP. It's a unique situation, unheard of in any part of the world, when a foreign country subsidizes its neighbour in this volume. Of course, it wasn't about friendship; it was all about the imperial ambitions of Russia.

Lukashenko didn't want to have a merger. He wanted to be the president of a new, revived Soviet Union. When his plan failed and Putin took over in Russia, he decided to make the best use of Russian resources and sold Russia political futures. Russia bought them, but right now Russia is fed up. It is cutting subsidies.

Now, in 2010, the subsidy amounts to about 7% of GDP and will continue to fall. Belarus has failed to deliver a customs union and Russia now sees that the only strategy is to put on more pressure via economic tools and mechanisms, meaning to raise gas prices. But again, even the west cannot complain here, because Belarus buys gas at a price that is three times lower than the price for Germany, let's say. That was a kind of subsidy. Belarus is highly dependent on the Russian market and Russian energy.

Lukashenko, even using IMF money, has failed to diversify the economy and start market reforms. That is why we, as the people who are taking part in the presidential elections, are seriously concerned about the sustainability of the Belarusian model. We want the Canadian government, the Canadian Parliament, to support us right now and then to provide us support once we get into power.

With this kind of heritage, it will be extremely difficult to carry out reforms, and we definitely want to avoid a Ukrainian scenario, where, after the elections in 2004, the Ukrainian government did not deliver on the promises to the people. We want our reforms to be a success, not just to be there to redistribute wealth.

[Anatoly Liabedzka]

[Witness speaks in Russian]

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Just a moment, please. We've lost the sound. My apologies.

[Jaroslav Romanchuk]

Meanwhile, I can refer to Russia and how Canada can treat Russia. Of course, Canada is one of the key players in major international organizations, the G20 or the G7, and of course, if you remind Russia of its international obligations, if you remind Russia of the importance of abiding by international rules, that will be extremely important, because Russia definitely has a role to play.

We are fearful of Russian invasion via economic means. Ultimately, Russia does not see Belarus as an independent country. That is why it doesn't want to support democracy and political pluralism; rather, it wants to corner Lukashenko and force him into a kind of merger.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You only have a minute left.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

To what extent do Belorussians see themselves as Russian? Is there a strong sense of national identity, or would some people like to be reunited with Russia?

[Vladimir Prokofyevich Neklyayev]

The uniqueness of Belarus is that the economic component in the consciousness of the people is not the main thing. What I mean is that when we developed our pre-electoral campaign for our candidate as president candidate, the impact of such things as the crisis, which in another country would be the determining factor, for us was not so. There were other issues.

The history of this people is made up of poverty. People remember the fear and the horror that their fathers, grandfathers, and ancestors lived through, and as for what Lukashenko is talking about, the possibility of eating and having a roof over their heads, they don't see this. They see this as, I don't know, maybe a sign of prosperity If you look at the richness of Canada, only 99% can see what's happening in Canada; maybe 0.9% have ever been to Canada. So it's not the national consciousness we're talking about: it's self-awareness, the awareness that they need to survive.

In our company, we tell the truth. We put aside the issues of political power and the economy. We talk to them about one thing: we say they are telling you that you live well, we show them our fingernail, and we say that's what you get, that little bit, and we ask them how much they tell them that they give them. They say, “They give us this much, a whole bag full”. It's not true.

No, it's not true. There's a joke that was made up by the people themselves. They ask a Belarusian what country he would like to live in. He says Belarus, and they say, “But that's where you live”. He says, “No, I want to live in the Belarus they show on TV”.

There is a disconnect between the propaganda on TV and what people are actually living in their economy. People are sick and tired of the lies. They're constantly lying and humiliating people. They don't listen to people's conscience and they don't respect the basic human values, so these are very painful, painful issues. This is what we work on in our campaign.

As for self-awareness and the relationship with Russia, it never changes. It's a constant. It's 50% toward Russia. Maybe 40% look to the west, 60%...well, it's a factor that you have to take into account. There is a real Soviet history here. Russia and Belarus were always sisters. They always helped each other, but in reality, there was never a history of endless warfare.

[Anatoly Liabedzka]

And in accordance with sociology, approximately 5% to 6% who were surveyed said that they are for full political unification with the Russian Federation, which means that approximately 94% of people want to live in their own home, and this is a major achievement of the political opposition, which for all these years has spoken for building a Belarusian homeland.

Lukashenko has to say that his opponents have won in recent times. The government has been actively stealing the slogans of the opposition. Fifteen years ago, the slogans were for a free and independent Belarus, and for those we were put in prison. Today, Lukashenko talks about independence, but it's another matter for him. Independence is an instrument to strengthen his own personal power.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Dmitriev.

[Andrey Dmitriev]

I'll be brief about your question of self-awareness, of identity. It is a tragedy in Belarus today, because in the past 15 years the government has constantly been destroying in people's minds their linkage to history, to culture, and to their language. It is a paradoxical situation in a country when you have to save your national language and it is one of two official languages. It is the first language, the first official language, and the majority of people don't speak it, because in the past 15 years all possible conditions were created to make another language the first official language. That is Russian, the one I'm speaking now, and not Belarusian.

So in those past 15 years in Belarus, schools that worked in Belarusian were closed. Before that, people used to come in from the village schools where everybody spoke Belarusian. For those who come in from the village schools and go to university, in the schools they write a Russian language exam, which means that the government has done everything... You'll understand what I mean if you talk about the hundred-year history of Belarus, where they spoke their own language and talked about a national culture. But to talk about unification of the country would have been difficult--not a partnership, but I'm talking about unification.

Our history with Russia started at the end of the 1900s, but the president says you must be very happy, there's no war, and everything is fine. That's what they talk about when they talk about societal issues.