Evidence of meeting #23 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was venezuela.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Sorry, but could you also repeat the United Nations data on the quality of life index, and its progress since 1999?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
The human development index, yes. One of the ways the United Nations measures social development and human rights, and I think it's generally considered the best index, is called the HDI, the human development index. It ranks countries every year based on a number of considerations: on access to health, access to education, access to food, division of wealth, or the Gini coefficient in the country--across the board, human rights. So it's sort of an amalgamation of a number of indicators. Venezuela in 2009 ranked at number 58. Comparatively, Brazil ranked at 75, Colombia at 77, Peru at 78, Ecuador at 80. So what we find on the human development index is that Venezuela has done very well. Under the Chavez government, there's been a huge access--
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Is there a point of comparison in the past? Can we also compare it with the past? Do we have the index for another date?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
Yes. Well, when we look at the number recently, from say 2005, Venezuela ranked at number 75, and now has advanced to number 58.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Thank you.
As to the report of the Organization of American States and the participation of the government, did the government really participate in it? It is the report on corruption in the government—I assume the government participated.
To what extent did the government participate in that study and what was its interest in doing so?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
The Organization of American States begins by thanking the Chavez government for full participation and help regarding their investigation of the corruption report. Hugo Chavez has acknowledged that corruption is a problem and is trying to clean it up. I think it's just a very realistic kind of policy that the government loses support if corruption exists. It knows corruption exists; it's trying to work with the situation.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
You talked about the synagogue incidents. Were there a number of them or just one? Actually, last week, someone came to talk to us about the desecration of one synagogue and said nothing about other cases. Were there a number of cases or just one?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
To my knowledge, there's only been one publicized case, and that was reported within the last couple of years.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
It was about a year and a half ago.
Are there other religious groups that have problems with the government? How is the relationship with the Catholic church, for example?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
The government has taken a very critical policy toward the official positions of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church officially, not Catholic people, but the political position of the church itself, has been highly critical of the government. That's typically what we have seen over the years in Latin America. The Catholic Church has been critical of left-leaning governments.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
As I understand it, the opposition currently has no representation in parliament because it boycotted the last elections.
Is it your impression that it will do that again? I feel it thinks it was a mistake. Will there be another boycott of the next elections? And when will they be held?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
The opposition is participating in the upcoming September legislative election. They have already fielded candidates in the primaries and they recognize their failure to participate in past elections as a very serious error.
What we're witnessing now is that the opposition was concentrated in one party, Acción Democrática. Now, because of the severe political mistakes made by that party, other parties are forming in opposition. They don't want to be associated with those mistakes.
The weakness of the opposition parties remains that you have to get the support of the barrios to win in Venezuela. You have to get the support of the poor. It's not enough just to represent the interests of the relatively small wealthy class and the middle class. So far, those opposition parties—one of them is called Primero Justicia—have been unable to reach out toward the poor or the formerly poor.
Bloc
Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Could you expand on Cuba's role and presence in Venezuela?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
The Cuban presence in Venezuela is highly positive. When we're looking at the aspect of health care, there are approximately 20,000 to 30,000 Cuban paramedics or doctors there, which has had a huge impact on support for President Chavez.
We're talking about people in the countryside who may not have any access at all to doctors and so forth and now have access to a doctor. I've talked to families who would have lost children before, who are not losing children now because they have the visitation of a doctor. There is also a program where 15,000 Venezuelan medical students attend medical school each year in Cuba and are coming back. The first crop just came back last year.
Bloc
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
Fifteen thousand.
Bloc
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Welcome. We're very pleased to have you here. Your report sounds to me like a very balanced testimony.
I don't want to in any way minimize the attack on the temple, because it certainly had its own significance, but to put that in a relative context, in Hamilton three days after 9/11 we had the fire bombing of a Hindu Samaj, and clearly that was a case of Islamophobia misdirected to the wrong place.
We've had significant testimony here about the fact that the day this attack took place in Venezuela there were certain sayings written on the wall, and later on it was claimed that Chavez used those exact same words in a speech. Are you aware of that?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
I regret I'm not aware of that case.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Okay.
We've had a variety of testimony, and it's pretty well exactly what you're saying. We've had people come here begging us, saying that this constitution is hugely effective, it has engaged the citizenry, they actually carry the constitution with them, and there are conversations.
On the other hand, we've had testimony regarding the closing of the TV stations and radio. The television station was quoted as being the leader of the main resistance and opposition to him, that it wasn't simply good journalism but that it was financially backed and behind the scenes. What would your comment be on that?
Professor, Political Sciences, University of British Columbia
Let me give you some facts. We're talking about Globovision. That's the TV station owned by Mr. Zuloaga, who was arrested briefly over the weekend and who claims he is a victim of free speech.
In a major journalists' conference in Aruba in March, Mr. Zuloaga said publicly—and it was recorded—that he had wished the 2002 coup against Chavez had succeeded.
Look at these radio stations or TV stations that have been closed down—for example, RCTV, which became the mouthpiece for the coup in 2002. One way to imagine this would be to imagine there was a military coup supported by a foreign government X in Canada and imagine that the CBC became the mouthpiece for the coup-makers. Is that free speech or is that subversion?
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Well, that was exactly what I was looking for, the fact that it's subversion.
You mentioned that people were talking about their phones being wiretapped. As a little bit of an aside here, I used to work for a telephone company. You do not hear a wiretap, period.
