Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses, Dr. Vollertsen and Mr. Lee, for being here today, and thank Mrs. Kim for coming back.
I also had the opportunity to get to know you two gentlemen over the last few months. I have the two questions. First, we're talking about two things: the things that are actually happening inside North Korea, where these gulags are essentially prisons—the whole country is a prison—within a larger prison.... Many of us have wondered what we can possibly do to influence North Korea, either the government directly or the people, so that they can do something. You have given us some good ideas today.
The second thing we talk about, though, is what happens when a North Korean escapes. The obvious and easy place is China, because it's a land border. We've talked about maybe trying to put some pressure or to get China to deal better with refugee claimants and North Korean citizens who escape into China.
When I listened to Mrs. Kim the other day, the most shocking part of her testimony was that after getting out of North Korea things could be so bad in China that she could be forced and coerced to go back into North Korea. That, to me, is testimony to how frightened and powerless she must have felt while she was in China.
My motion and other motions that have been brought forward are more oriented towards getting China to do something, rather than North Korea, because we sense that we might be successful with China whereas we're not going to be successful with North Korea. Do you agree that maybe this is an avenue we ought to be taking as citizens of the world and political leaders, to maybe spend our time focusing on China to improve the plight of those who get out of North Korea, or do you think there is something we can do directly with North Korea?
I'll ask my second question if I have time.