Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 26th, 2012

[Greg Giokas]

It was China, Thailand, and India, as well, to a certain extent.

It's a mineral-rich country. There is also gas, and there are deposits that have been.... Under the American and European sanctions, there was a grandfathering of companies that were already active. So Chevron has been active. Total, out of France, has the largest foreign presence in Burma, which is about 100 employees, we understand. That's not very big for a foreign presence in the oil and gas sector.

Again, this has been the effect of sanctions. You don't have that type of economic activity. And you have investment from a limited number of countries that have specific interests, which are also in their own particular interest. You become a country that needs this type of economic activity, and you take a careful look at how you attract it. This is why we believe, from everything we've heard so far, that this is a very sincere attempt to open up the country to democratic institutions to ensure prosperity and stability for their people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You have one minute left.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

You mentioned earlier that you are encouraging parliamentarians to visit. Has the foreign affairs department begun some possible missions in that regard? Is there opportunity, possibly, to send a delegation there? Is that something you've looked into?

[Greg Giokas]

Not yet. The minister's announcement, his expression of interest in seeing engagement with the Burmese parliament, is all very recent.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

May I take the remaining seconds to follow up on my other questions?

We've seen tremendous progress in the country in terms of democratic reform, and I want to acknowledge that. But I want to follow up briefly on what's happening in the Kachin state, because it's very unique. The Burmese army has broken a 17-year ceasefire. They're very active. They've moved in battalions, according to Human Rights Watch reports.

I wonder why. When there's this outbreak of democratic reform throughout the rest of the country, and at the same time a dramatic increase in violence and conflict in the Kachin state in the north, I wonder if it is related to the natural resources there. Is it ethnic or religious? Is it related to China's influence in putting a transnational pipeline through the region? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[Greg Giokas]

And literally they will be just thoughts, because we don't have concrete answers to a lot of that. I think all of those are excellent questions that we will need to ask the Government of Burma: what is going on? An important aspect of the progress forward is getting a clear understanding of why this is still happening and what needs to be done in order to stop it and achieve a greater degree of social stability in that particular region. But it is a resource-rich region. It is an ethnic group with which the Government of Burma has had difficulties, and they continue.

As peace is breaking out and progress is happening and enthusiasm is being expressed and countries are willing to engage, we still have this question mark as to what needs to be done in order to help this end.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We will now go to Monsieur Jacob.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

My question is for Mr. Giokas or Ms. Rice Madan.

Your opening remarks included the following:In his most recent report in March 2012, the UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in Myanmar, Tomas Quintana, welcomed positive changes in Burma but flagged several other areas still in need of major improvement, including treatment of prisoners, consistency of certain laws and provisions of the constitution with international human rights standards, and reform of the judiciary.

In 2011, as part of the United Nations Human Rights Council, Canada made very specific recommendations to the Myanmar government on the controlling forces, the human rights training needed, banning the use of anti-personnel mines, cooperating with respect to the free circulation of human rights information around the country, the standards aimed at limiting restrictions on fundamental freedoms of expression, of assembly, of association, of the press and of religion, as well as reforming the judiciary. We also recommended immediate investigation into extrajudicial killings, the recruitment of child soldiers, torture, sexual maltreatment, forced labour and slavery, and the immediate liberation of prisoners held solely because of peaceful political activities or because of their ethnic or religious affiliation.

Are those recommendations still relevant in 2012?

[Greg Giokas]

Yes, they are in some respects. This is exactly the question we are asking in order to follow up on Burma's social and democratic development. The legislative authorities have basically been doing a good job for about a year. These people have also created a national commission on human rights. The judicial role is still a little difficult, but the authorities also seem willing to consider improvements in that area. The 2008 constitution includes provisions on the fundamental human rights of citizens. We can list a series of aspects that give us hope to the extent that there is progress. However, when we look at Canada's expectations, for example, we see that the list is really long.

We were surprised by the willingness and capacity that have been shown to turn that willingness into action. That's why the sanctions by Canada and other countries have now been suspended. There is a desire and a willingness to be productively engaged with Burma at several levels.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

So it seems that we are walking the talk, as we say. We assume it is in good faith.

I know that Canada, Europe and the United States, in particular, have been open to the good faith that Burma seems to be concretely showing, but with respect to carrying out these recommendations and improving these rights, are there any specific time frames?

[Greg Giokas]

Not exactly. I should say that this process involving the government is just getting started. Everything needs to be discussed, and the standards, phases, measurable aspects and so on need to be determined.

However, as we noted earlier today, elections are scheduled for 2015. So for the good of the country and our confidence in the developments and progress that Burma wants to achieve, there will have to be improvements that lead to general elections that will be free and fair this time. Targeting this objective, in order to work together and make the improvements needed so that elections bring the country to a second phase of development, is beneficial both for the Burmese government and for us.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I like the expression "work together".

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Perfect. That was exactly six minutes.

Thank you very much. We appreciate our witnesses coming in.

We have a bit of committee business that we have to wrap up, and the clock is running. I'm going to thank you all and ask you to leave, because we have to go in camera.

Thank you very much. We will suspend momentarily while we allow people to leave the room.

[Proceedings continue in camera]