Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes.

[Nicole Mwaka]

Let's talk about what the DRC parliament is doing. In March 2010, I was still in the Democratic Republic of Congo. On March 8, we were celebrating International Women's Day. That year, we were supposed to be hosting a number of women as part of the World March of Women. We were supposed to meet in the DRC, in South Kivu, actually, in solidarity with the women's movements denouncing the acts of violence and urging governments to act and to take concrete measures. To launch the World March of Women—I was the DRC representative in Kinshasa—we organized a march on March 27, 2010. Our starting point was our ministry responsible for gender, family and children's issues. Then we went to the parliament where we presented a memo demanding that specific measures be taken to end violence against women, and also to end everything going on in the east because more women are victims there than men. We went right up to the parliament and presented the memo. That was in March 2010, more than one year and eight months ago, and we still have not had any reply, or any results.

With reference to the legislation requiring the implementation of equality between men and women, as recommended by the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, the recommendation was that each country pass legislation implementing equality between men and women. But it was never done.

Basically, there is no responsible government in the Democratic Republic of Congo at the moment. Personally, I am disappointed because, while women are still being raped, no government that can deal with women's issues can be said to exist. Women's organizations and human rights organizations like Amnesty International are mobilizing at both international and regional levels. We are fighting to make our case internationally, because we have come to understand that nothing is happening internally, despite the recommendations of a number of organizations, including the United Nations and NGOs. That is why we are coming to the international community. We hope that we will be helped by all members of the United Nations who are in solidarity with us and who want to stand up for the values of universal human rights. Perhaps they will be able to help us put an end to this form of violence.

Violence as a weapon of war might come to an end if the conflicts in the DRC do. Because war perpetuates this kind of violence. The problem lies with the rebel forces who are in place because the forces in power permit it. They are supposed to be halting the rebel advances, but everyone is offering up women as spoils of war. An end to the war would mean an end to the violence against women in the DRC. That is why we are asking for help to end the war that is now spreading in the east of the DRC.

I am going to proceed quickly so that my colleague can speak. I have given examples of sexual violence being used as a weapon of war. You have no idea how hard it is to live through that reality, especially when you are right there.

As I said earlier, women have been raped, and then, instead of just leaving them alone, the perpetrators have tried to destroy them, to destroy their bodies. Others have not been killed. They have been left alive, but they are no longer able to walk, to feel like women, to have children. They have been destroyed as women. That is the problem.

We have plenty of examples. We even have photos, which we can provide to your committee. We will contact your communications people and provide you with cases where violence has been used as a weapon of war, and with pictures as proof.

Thank you.

You probably want to carry on.

[Desire Kilolwa]

If you go back a little bit in the peace process in South Africa, there were some five points that we wanted to develop in that. When they went there, instead of talking about things like reunification of the country, peace in the country, and all those kinds of things, they didn't talk about that. They just went to power-sharing. That's where the problem started. Instead of seeing the problem that the country was facing, they just put it aside, and started talking about power-sharing. You know the consequence. That's the consequence of all the numbers I was mentioning here. All the women that they keep on.... The number is now 48 women a day who are raped. This is one of the consequences of the peace process that went wrong in South Africa. That's why we are here.

If the country had been able to do something, if the regime in place had been able to do something, I think we would not be here. We are here because we know Congolese are like orphans today. We don't have parents. It's like a household that doesn't have parents. We don't have parents. We don't have a government. That's why we are trying to be in touch with international organizations and with international countries, to get them involved to try to help us to find peace and security in the country.

Thank you.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

That, unfortunately, uses up the time for that round, plus three extra minutes.

I think we are going to have to give a question to Professor Cotler. I don't think we're going to have time to do the second round for the New Democrats or the Conservatives.

Professor Cotler, please begin.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Kilolwa, you talked about a community in peril. Mrs. Mwaka, you talked about crimes against humanity in a country where the government does not protect its citizens. In fact, you might say the opposite: the government, elements of the government, are responsible for the situation.

As you said, Mr. Kilolwa, you feel like an orphan without a parent.

First, do you think that this is a time to use the responsibility to protect doctrine so that we get concerted international action, as we did in Libya, in order to protect and save the people?

Second, what specific recommendations would you like to make to the Parliament and the Government of Canada about this perilous situation?

[Nicole Mwaka]

Thank you very much for that question.

I think that, by bringing this up today, we have told ourselves that, when you are a member state of the United Nations that has ratified agreements and undertaken commitments, you are in fact responsible.

The current problem in the DRC goes beyond national responsibility. It becomes a question of international responsibility. Under international humanitarian law, we think that it is high time Canada took some leadership in protecting civilians who are being massacred in the east of the DRC as we speak.

This is an international responsibility. Human rights are universal. Every country is affected by this. This is not about a right of interference. It is about protecting civilians in a war, in a period of armed conflict. There are documents on which Canada can base its actions.

That is why we are asking the Parliament of Canada to use all the means at its disposal and all its power to urge our government to take concrete steps to protect the people who are being slaughtered in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

We have demonstrated to you here that we are living in an lawless state where anyone can come, plunder our mining resources and leave, and where people can move in without us knowing who they are.

The Democratic Republic of Congo will be holding elections soon. The elections will be held in less than a month, on November 28. People will be able to elect their leaders by using their democratic voice. But we feel that, at the moment, whatever the results of the elections, the Congolese people may well be worse off.

We are facing a crisis today. People who follow events in Africa see how terrible things are. So we think that it is time to protect the Congolese people. We think that the Government of Canada, which is already playing a very important role in providing development aid to the Democratic Republic of Congo, should do more.

In terms of rape, through the embassy or through CIDA, you even have clinics and hospitals caring for rape victims. But we want you to go further because, like it or not, these are displaced people and they eventually come to us here as refugees. If our policy were one of prevention, they could stay in their own country and live in peace. That is what we are asking for.

So that is how I would go about answering your question.

[Desire Kilolwa]

I'll try also to answer that question by saying that Canada has long been in the Congo, especially in the east. Canada is a co-chair today of the international conference on the Great Lakes region. Through CIDA, Canada is still sending a lot of money to the east. So those are really tangible actions that Canada is doing in the Congo, but we would like to see more.

That is why I'm saying we are orphaned, because you've been putting in that money, but we can't see it. It can't be seen, because peace and security is a major situation. It's not the NGOs that will bring peace or the security—it needs the leadership of the government. And you, as Canada, I think you have to bring this government to an end. If you want to deal with them or have bilateral cooperations with them, they have to observe human rights. They have to observe this. Before you give them anything or have any cooperation with this government in place really, the conditions have to be that they have to respect human rights in the Congo. That is one thing.

The second thing is I know that you've been dealing with a lot of Congolese here—you send them to school here, you've been working with them—and there is still another possibility. Deal with these people and prepare them so that they can perhaps be another hand to help the government in place, or in the future—to see how they can lead this country. Because what is there—we don't know how to describe it. They don't respond as a government has to respond to its population. They don't care about the population. Those women we are talking about are sleeping in the street. No one is taking care of them. Recently they sent us a report; there are 800 children born from rape. The local community doesn’t want to hear about these children. The government doesn't do anything. So where are we going to end up, with these children?

So I think you have to put some conditions on any bilateral cooperation with the government in the Congo. They have to observe human rights.

The reparation we are talking about is…. As my colleague said, there are some Canadian companies in the Congo or around the region. What we are trying to do as an organization.... We don't want to point to them, we don't want to accuse them, but we know that according to Canadian law, these companies have to donate some funding to deal with the damage they've been causing in the community. This money belongs to the community, but because of the leadership that we have this money is going into the pockets of these leaders. So the Government of Canada.... These mining companies may deal with the local NGOs so that they can repay for some things, like building a rural hospital for these women, building some rural schools for these women. It may be one of their operations that this community is waiting for, from this mining company.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right.

Thank you to all of our witnesses. We've allowed ourselves to run a bit over. It makes up in part, I'm afraid only in part, for the delays that were imposed at the front end. But you've given very good and very heartfelt testimony.

Our analyst drew to my attention the offer that you'd made.

Mrs. Mwaka, you mentioned that you could provide the committee with more information. Can I ask you to send it to our clerk?

[Nicole Mwaka]

Certainly.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

A point of order, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Yes, please.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

If I may, I would request that the witnesses make their presentation available in both languages, and submit that to the clerk, for the members of the subcommittee to have. Because they presented a lot of statistics in that presentation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Yes, if we can get that. The problem, of course, was that it wasn't available in both official languages. But we'll get it and translate it and make sure that the members of the committee get that as soon as possible.

Yes.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Mr. Chair, since they're doing that, may I ask that in the submission they make they keep one thing in mind? We had the officials here last time, and they talked about our participation in MONUSCO and the education of the people in DRC around changed behaviour sociologically that the NGOs are funding regarding rape, etc. Specifically, what other things would they want Canada to do? If they wanted to think about that when they give their submission, that would be great.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

For the benefit of the witnesses, we had witnesses from the government on Tuesday. That testimony is not yet available, but we'll make sure our clerk gets that testimony to the witnesses. If you could then take a look at it and offer your commentary, as Mr. Sweet has suggested, that would actually be very helpful to us. Of course we're trying to find out what Canada can do to be of assistance, so offering a critique of what we are doing now or assert that we're doing would be very helpful.

That being said, there is one--

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Are we going in camera for business, or don't we have time? I would propose to the committee to have at least one or two other meetings to deal with this issue, because we have other witnesses we would like to hear from.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

I would suggest something here, because we are basically out of time. We have a number of suggested witnesses. They are almost entirely coming from Tom, so why don't we buttonhole him to speak on behalf of his member and we'll try and either line up witnesses related to the DRC or to the Sri Lanka issue, depending upon availability of the witnesses. Frankly, that is actually the driving criterion, whether we can get people here by next Tuesday.

Is that acceptable?

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I want to ask before we go, Mr. Chair, if we could be supplied the list of witnesses before we give consensus on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right. So what we're saying then is that we'd like to have that list of witnesses for both places to be given to the clerk, who will then distribute it. Obviously, timeliness is helpful to other members, and then perhaps we'll leave it to the members to get back to the clerk and she'll clear them with me.

Are people comfortable with leaving the final decision with me, if we do things that way?

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

That's fine with me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Good, let's do it that way.

Thank you very much for your patience, everybody, in particular our witnesses. We do thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.