Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 19th, 2012

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The U.S. Department of State's 2010 report on international religious freedom stated that there was evidence that the Burmese authorities were trying to force non-Buddhists into converting to Buddhism. There were even reports in which local authorities were operating in the high schools and ensuring that only Buddhist students could have the opportunity of obtaining government jobs after graduation. So in order for Christian individuals to attend these opportunity high schools, they must first convert to Buddhism.

In your view, are these reports accurate and does the Burmese government truly restrict job opportunities and economic privileges for young students based on ethnicity and religion? If this is truly the case, have these pressured conversions had an apparent impact on these religious and minority communities?

[Dr. Wakar Uddin]

Yes, in my view, that was the case. There was evidence and there were reports that in many cities and in many places they were selectively picking students for high schools and colleges; and religious preference, although they don't say it in the book, has been a big part of how they make selections. They are Buddhism-based selections. Burma is 89% Buddhist.

So a great religion has been hijacked by these extremists in the Burmese military and government. We all know the theology of Buddha says that you cannot kill one ant or insect. A great religion of peace has been hijacked and used like many other religions. We have seen that in our own religion too. So it's been hijacked and this religious preference is an ongoing thing and part of the ethnic cleansing.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Ms. Grewal.

Monsieur Jacob, s'il vous plaît.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Uddin, thank you for your testimony about the discrimination in your country.

In a 2010 report on freedom of religion around the world, the State Department suggests that the government of Burma tends to think that freedom of religion is a potential threat to national unity or to the central authority. What do you think of that view?

[Dr. Wakar Uddin]

Religious tolerance is not something that is existing in Burma. The majority of the Burmese population, 89%, are Buddhist. They have been using the campaign of Burmanization—as you will see in some literature or books—of all ethnic minorities. They want them to convert to Buddhism.

That's why there have been serious clashes in Christian areas—Kachin and Chin and Karen. The Burmese government has been launching campaigns there to convert them back to Christianity, and the same thing with the Muslims. So religious tolerance is not there, and a multi-religion based society in Burma is not in the picture right now.

However, if that democratic transformation process goes smoothly, that will hopefully guarantee some coexistence of religion, and a multi-religion based society could be possible in Burma.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Why do you think the Burmese government is so afraid of that kind of co-existence? Has the situation changed since the recent reforms were implemented, since the civilian government came to power?

[Dr. Wakar Uddin]

Yes. This Burmese government, Burmese society, is very nationalist. It's religion-based Buddhist, religion-based nationalist. They do not have tolerance for other religions, despite this democratic reform. Since 1962 that has been one of the government's foundations, the Buddhism-based society.

That's why the philosophy of ultranationalist Buddhism has taken roots in the society. It will be very difficult for them to moderate their philosophy of coexistence so soon, but with the democratic process, with Aung San Suu Kyi hopefully coming to power, it is a hope that we can coexist as a multi-religious society over time.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Here is my final question. In terms of democratic principles, what are the main steps that the international community should take to ensure that real progress is made and that measurable results are achieved in the fight against religious discrimination in Burma?

[Dr. Wakar Uddin]

Thank you very much for asking me that question.

Again, this is the key. This democratic reform in Burma is right now mainly targeted toward the economy, trade, and investment. They want to have military capitalism. They are interested in military capitalism. They have opened up all this trade. But addressing the ethnic minority issue is not part of the equation. They want to lure the international community, showing all this trade opening and others, while they are putting a blanket on the ethnic minority issue.

In order to address the issue, again I want to emphasize that the international community, including a country like Canada, individually or in coalition—not with a European and American NATO-type intervention, not militarily—should send monitoring groups, aid groups, human rights groups, immediately. I must emphasize immediately. We are running out of time.

While the bureaucracy is working, they are sending all these orders from Naypyidaw, the capital city, to the ground. It takes days and days and days, and in the meantime we're losing time. They are buying time, basically to finish some of the Rohingya people.

The international community must sustain its efforts, without losing momentum, to intervene with humanitarian groups and aid and a UN peacekeeping force, and all of that. You in the international community will also have a better picture of what is happening on the ground, if the international community is present in Arakan state.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Uddin.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Jacob.

Mr. Sweet indicated he had something else he wanted to say.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Mr. Chair, you know how diligent I am about trying to get studies done. In this case, because we have heard such troubling testimony about Kachin state, and now Arakan state, and the Rohingya, and since the Union of Myanmar has a full ambassador here, I think we should call the ambassador to answer to some of these very serious claims. We're talking about ethnic cleansing here. Have them come to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay—

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Do we want to consider a special meeting?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We could.

May I suggest that we thank and excuse our witness, and then we'll proceed to a discussion of this sort of thing?

Let me stop now.

Thank you, Dr. Uddin. I very much appreciate, as we all do, your testimony today. I think everybody found it as compelling as I did. We're very grateful to you for inconveniencing yourself as much as you did in order to come here to present us such a thorough presentation.

We're thankful to you as well, Mr. Parkinson.

[Dr. Wakar Uddin]

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to present our case, and again, I beg you, I appeal to you, to take action immediately. We are losing time. I don't know if you feel this matter could even be brought up to the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council, because its extent is very deep and wide. The width and depth of the problem is very large. It is almost similar to Srebrenica in the former Yugoslavia.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, if we're going to discuss future business, it might be appropriate to go in camera. I would ask anyone who agrees with me to move a motion to that effect and we could do that.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Marston.

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay, we'll just suspend for a moment and go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]