Evidence of meeting #44 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was burmese.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
In the national government.
Conservative
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
The USDP.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Is there a dialogue between them and the National League for Democracy?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
No. To my knowledge, there is no dialogue.
In fact U Soe Myint, a former MP not from the military, who was part of the NLD during Aung San Suu Kyi's 1988 landslide victory, tried to meet with Aung San Suu Kyi in Rangoon after she was released. He was not given access.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I'm wondering why. I see in the news reports that Aung San Suu Kyi has been asked to comment on this issue, the state of the Rohingya, and from what I can tell, she has never commented. Do you have any idea why?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
I think she believes that it is a sensitive issue. The military and the Burmese government have brainwashed, so to speak, the Burmese population and the majority of the Burmese population who are not in favour of the Rohingya.
Aung San Suu Kyi appears to be walking a fine line, because she may feel that it is a sensitive issue, and she will not get support from the general Burmese population or the military government if she says anything that might imply justice for the Rohingya. They would think it is favoured.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Why has the government taken this position regarding the Rohingya minority? I've heard statements that they believe that the Rohingya were not present during the colonial period. Is that the primary issue? Is it that they have not had enough history in the country?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
That is what they say. That's a pretext.
They must know, if they are intellectuals and historians and would base their knowledge, that the Rohingya have been living there for centuries and centuries, as I showed on the slide. It is an ethnic cleansing issue and a racial intolerance issue.
The Rohingya being Muslim does not help. Although they are turning to religion and religious violence, it started from ethnic cleansing.
They don't want this population of Indian or South Asian appearance or descent because of racial intolerance. They may have a paranoid idea that this population will grow and grow and will eventually take over and dominate the Arakan state. It's basically ethnic cleansing.
The Rohingya are unwanted people in their view. So by any means, they want the population eliminated through a gradual reduction, a rapid reduction, or a semi-rapid reduction. They have several strategies. They have driven out people before, hundreds of thousands, as you know, during the Bangladesh refugee crisis.
This is basically an ethnic cleansing, racially motivated, violent campaign.
Conservative
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you for coming.
I'm new on this committee, and I am very new to the situation happening in Burma. It's an eye-opener for me. It's a tragic thing in the history of mankind when a society almost makes another group of society subhuman or non-citizens. We saw this in the United States before the Civil War.
You are suggesting that it's not necessarily religion. It's an attack on your people, similar to maybe an attack on the Jewish people in World War II or the gypsies in Europe. The rest of the country sees no place for you being there. So they're diminishing you and diminishing you as a citizen, technically.
We see this a bit in Indonesia right now. In northern Indonesia, they're doing it with the Christians. You're saying that it's not totally based on religion. It's based on a group of people they don't want in their country.
The United States Department of State says that it is more religion based. But I don't think it really matters what the reason is, because the reality is that your people are being ostracized, your people are being pushed around.
It was mentioned or alluded to that you have a new leader. She's held in quite good regard in the rest of the world. We are thinking that it's an inspiration for not only Burma but also for the region. But you don't have too much optimism about your change of command or change of leadership in Burma. You don't see that your people are going to be all of a sudden.... She is not the Abraham Lincoln who's going to make you equal. Is that the way you sense it?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
Yes.
Liberal
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
No.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
She's not going to say, “Look, we have people in our country who are being downtrodden, and we're all equal”.
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
I must say this. Aung San Suu Kyi was mainly raised and educated in western countries, and her sensitivity to humanity is great. We can see that. We can hear that. We can sense that.
I think she could not be Abraham Lincoln, because society is very different in Burma. It is not a society like Abraham Lincoln had here. She would have to come to power completely, not just with 47 members in Parliament.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
That being said, if it's not going to come from within the country, it's got to come from outside. If your people are to have any sort of peace or freedom, it has to come from the international community. You don't see it, no matter who's going to be running your country because it's a minority and it's not going to be recognized.
What can our committee do here, and what can the international community do to put pressure on...?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
Western countries, western alliances—NATO, the Europeans, Americans, Canadians—should sustain the pressure. I do not believe that military intervention is an option, at least at this stage. Exert pressure on the Burmese government through sanctions and other things, and don't relax sanctions so quickly and significantly, but give them some incentive to move forward and in the right direction. I think the international community can do a lot through the United Nations.
Again, I'm going to emphasize the word “sustain”. Once pressure is put on the Burmese government, it should remain. I think the international community needs to be persistent. I know there's a lot of distraction around the world with Syria and many other places, but despite these other distractions, I think the Rohingya issue needs to stay up in the profile. With continued pressure on the Burmese government, I believe that they will eventually respond because they do want to develop relationships with the west via trade and other ways, and open up.
So if this new leader, Thein Sein, is a moderate, I think you will see some changes despite some opposition from his hardliners. I think a coalition, as you have done in many countries—Libya, Iraq, and many other parts of the world—but a non-military coalition at this point, with just economic.... Here I must say that I think the best approach is...I don't know what kind of policy the Canadian government has for sending Canadian teams, Canadian humanitarian groups, to Burma, or going through the United Nations.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
If your leader is going around the world and the average person thinks Burma has finally seen the light, that it's looking like a better, more democratic country, are you suggesting that we should push back and say, that's fine, but there's a fly in the ointment, that something is not transforming in your country? So should we be pushing for monitoring at elections, for people from the UN or from Canada and various other countries to monitor the situation on human rights right in the country? That would be a big step.
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
Absolutely. That is the key. I must emphasize that I cannot see a better way to handle the situation without monitoring and sending in various international groups—humanitarian groups, aid groups, monitoring groups, human rights groups—from the United Nations and individual countries. It must be a significant undertaking. If one or two UN officials go to one or two cities and come back, it's not going to work. It has to be persistent. They have to hit the ground. They have to have a regular office, and it has to be systematic, because the problem is systematic. It is widespread; it is not a small thing. I can assure you, sitting here and testifying, that it is very significant and that this has to be coordinated by the international community, just as the Burmese ethnic cleansing is coordinated.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
I'm sorry, Mr. Eyking, your time ran out about two minutes ago. But you had good questions, so I wanted to let the answer go on.
Ms. Grewal, please.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. Uddin, for your time and your presentation.
The U.S. State Department report on human rights practices for 2011 has stated that the Rohingya minority has experienced legal, economic, and social discrimination, as well as denial of citizenship, restrictions on movement and travel, and denial of higher education or employment, as you stated in your presentation. In your opinion, besides the ethnic cleansing, what are the other underlying reasons the Rohingya population is treated differently from other ethnic and religious minorities?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
What you have stated is the primary reason, the ethnic cleansing, the ethnic intolerance—and being Muslim did not help the Rohingya people, which is also a factor.
But I must assure you that if these Rohingya people did not happen to be Muslim—because of the Mughal empire's reach, they took their religion from it—they would have been Hindu. Or if the Christian missionaries went there, as they did in Karen state or in Kachin state, they would have been Christian. If these Rohingya were Christians or Hindus or any other religion, their genetic identity would remain the same, their race would remain the same.
If they were not Muslim and they were another religion, the Burmese would not have spared them. I assure you of that, because the anti-South Asian and anti-Indian sentiment is very high. This is a systemic issue. So that's why the Rohingya happen to be targeted at this point. We should remember that the people of the subcontinent, from India and Pakistan and Bangladesh, who went to Burma during the British time as business people were deported by the hundreds of thousands in the sixties.
So that sentiment has been there. But the Rohingya people are unlike folks from India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh who went to Burma during the British time for trade purposes, just as they went to Kenya and other countries. The Rohingya are an ethnic minority, an indigenous population that was living there before that. So after the Indians had left, the Rohingya became more of a target, because they think there is a remaining legacy of people of Indian culture, or South Asian I should say.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
In regard to taking steps towards improving conditions for the Rohingya minority, has there been any increase in communication or dialogue between the Burmese government and the Rohingya leaders?
Chairman, Director General, Arakan Rohingya Union, The Burmese Rohingya Association of North America (BRANA)
No, the dialogue was only between the USDP and the Burmese government, the military parties, through Rohingya MPs. But they had to be yes-men, because they were under the military and in their party. Naturally, they will not have an independent voice.
So through the ARU, we have proposed to the Burmese government that the Rohingya overseas, like us, the diaspora, want to talk to the Burmese government and initiate a dialogue. We want to be part of the process so we can be a moderate voice coming from outside of the country, and the Burmese government has not responded. So I ask the Canadian government and the international community if there is any way you can facilitate that approach to have the Burmese government talk to us. Maybe that will allay their fear of the unknown. They don't want to talk to us because they have a fear of the unknown.
Once we can start a dialogue, I am confident that we can talk. If we don't talk, they will never know. So that's something for which I want to ask for your help. You can play a role in initiating a dialogue with the Burmese government.