Evidence of meeting #55 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was eritrea.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
How can your company be sure that its activities at the Bisha mine do not contribute to government of Eritrea activities that violate human rights?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
I may be repetitive, but as I said before, we can control what we can control within our operation. What that means is that certainly there are benefits to the people of Eritrea through salary, wages, and into the government treasury.
We do not control, and nor should we control, I believe, the Eritrean sovereign right to spend the money the way it wishes—no more than we could control the Canadian government as to how it may spend its revenues.
Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I have a question about the fact that Eritrea is one of the most militarized countries in the world. Actually, it's second after North Korea. It's a closed country, where no NGOs and no media have the right to enter the country.
How is it affecting the Eritrean country, and how do you monitor the redistribution of the 40% that the Eritrean government possesses to the Eritrean people? How do you make sure that this 40% is actually being redistributed to the people and not being used to buy military assets or materials?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
Sorry, I may be a bit repetitive here, but we as a company are responsible for what we can control. We do our very best. We bring an awful lot of good to Eritrea. We can't control what the government does with its funds, and nor do I think we should. I make the analogy to Canada as well.
That said, we provide not only significant social benefits to our employees, but through a very strong operation we have contributed greatly to training, employment opportunity, and the development of the mining industry in a very responsible manner. The government has been very, very supportive of our methodology and our support for the industry.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Davis, for being here today.
I'm going to ask a few questions relating to the extractive industries transparency initiative, or EITI. My understanding is that Eritrea is not a supporting country, and has actually been asked by the UN monitoring group to consider participating voluntarily. But they've refused that. Canada, as you know, is a supporting country.
I wonder, Mr. Davis, if you could clarify for us why Nevsun chooses voluntarily to be part of the EITI in terms of reporting the resources that it ends up giving or paying to government while the Eritrean government itself is not participating in that initiative.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
I probably shouldn't comment on behalf of the government as to their decision-making process, but we are very familiar with the EITI. We think it's a reasonable process to ensure that the users of our financial statements and various stakeholders have an opportunity to see the revenue flow to the State of Eritrea in terms of taxes, royalties, etc. We're very comfortable in doing that.
The Eritrean government is very aware that we do this. Well before the start of operations, we said that we intended to do so, and they were very comfortable with that.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Okay.
On a little different track, then, your website reports that the philosophy of the Eritrean central government is to ensure that the entire country benefits from resource development to ensure no one particular region is a recipient of disproportionate benefits.
Do you have any idea how the government actually carries that out? I mean, it's a great statement. Are you aware that it's actually being practised?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
It is a great statement. We are aware to some extent, and maybe it just needs embellishment so that you better understand what the statement means.
Often in other countries' communities, there's a belief that the local communities should get a lion's share of the benefits associated with resources extracted from the immediate area. That's not the case with Eritrea. They believe that it's a national resource, and accordingly the local communities shouldn't disproportionately benefit.
Actually, they do, because the communities that are closer have much higher employment and opportunity.
But as to what they do with the funds, again, if that's really what you're getting at, we're not in the position to influence that, and we don't think we should.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Okay.
There was a statement made by Elizabeth Chyrum, director of Human Rights Concern Eritrea, and I'm just going to read a little bit of what she said:
As for what is happening is, first of all, the people who are employed by Nevsun are well fed and well paid, and they are well quartered. The subcontractors are the government-owned companies, construction companies, and they employ about 3,000 Eritreans. Those 3,000 are poorly paid. They sleep in a makeshift-like camp. They eat very poorly. They work up to 16 hours. This second group is the conscripts. The conscripts are like a battalion or a brigade. They bring them there and give them the construction company's uniform. The conscripts are warned not to say they are conscripts.
Was this an accurate statement back in the early days of Nevsun, back in early 2011? Is it accurate today? And are the workers in fact free to express their concerns about the development or the operations at Nevsun?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
I believe Mrs. Chyrum's source of information may be very limited.
Directly to your question, no, it's not an accurate statement, either in the early days or now. I think I said in my preliminary, but I can expand on it a bit, that the average workforce of the Eritreans and the subcontractors was 440. It never reached anything near 3,000; that's just not appropriate.
As for the comment regarding 16-hour days, there's a short element of truth to that. For a few days, not only did the subcontractor work long hours, everybody worked long hours. I need to make sure you get the context right. In a construction project, there are certain times where you have to do cement pours that are virtually continuous, and it requires a lot of people, time, and attention. Even during that 16 hours, they get a number of breaks—two- to three-hour breaks. They're well fed. They get covered off by other people during that period, and the next day they would have a further day off.
That only happened a few times, when we were doing significant pours of the cement foundations. The normal workday is 8 to 10 hours.
Sorry if I'm going too long, but....
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I was just going to comment, Mr. Davis, that having been raised on a farm, I know what 16-hour days are like. Then I came back into it as a member of Parliament. I think we're familiar with those times when there is a little bit more expected of employees, and then there are times to give them a break. I appreciate your response on that point.
I think my time is up, sir, so I thank you for your time today.
Liberal
Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Sir, as I think you appreciate, the U.S. Department of State, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, and major human rights organizations have reported on persistent and pervasive human rights violations in Eritrea. That has included systematic patterns of detention, of torture in detention, violations of freedom of religion and freedom of expression, of forced conscription. I myself have also met with and heard directly from Eritreans themselves, where, for example, they spoke of forced labour, of military conscripts being used by local companies that have been subcontracted by Nevsun.
My question is this: how do you feel about your involvement in a country that has been described as the North Korea of Africa with respect to human rights violations, and what has been your involvement...? I know that your CSR strategy has spoken of this, but one of our witnesses said, in a critique of your CSR strategy, that it's been “mostly at the level of philanthropy and platitudes”. But there has been “no evidence”, to use their words, that you've engaged at all with the government in order to help address and redress this widespread and systematic pattern of human rights violations that amount to crimes against humanity.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
Well, I thought I was here....
Actually, it gives me an opportunity to thank you again for asking me to be here. We heard about this subcommittee after a number of these accusations. Fortunately, DFAIT brought them to our attention.
Unfortunately, your comments were so lengthy that I didn't get focused in on what the question was. What I can say, which is really a general answer, is that we can control what we can control. As a company, we are bringing an awful lot of good to this country and we are bringing an awful lot of good to the people of Eritrea—economically, socially, and through the establishment of high international standards, which I think are very significant benefits to the country and to the people.
Liberal
Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Mr. Davis, I'm worried about those high international standards and your approach to them. For example, your CSR report has indicated that you have “not encountered any corruption practiced by any Government officials, representatives or any organisations connected to the State of Eritrea”.
I don't have to remind you, I believe, about the reports of the UN monitoring group on Somalia and Eritrea, that ranked Eritrea 48th out of 53 African states on the matter of corruption. I can go on. I think the evidence is known to you.
How is it that you are able to say that you have not encountered “any” corruption whatsoever? This is what worries me. I'll repeat my question specifically: to what extent have you addressed and sought to redress the pattern of systematic and widespread violations of human rights in Eritrea?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nevsun Resources Ltd.
I'll repeat myself as well, Mr. Cotler. I stand by the words in that report. I've said them many, many times to many, many people. There's no effort, by any government official, whether they be with the government or a crown corporation, or a state official, whatsoever with respect to corruption.
I'll also repeat myself on another point. We can control, as a company responsibly operating within the country of Eritrea, our operation, how we behave, our business practices. And we do a very, very, very good job with respect to our obligations with respect to human rights. We ensure that people are there of their own free will. We ensure that they have already been cleared of military release documents, that their national service has been completed. If they're working for a contractor or a subcontractor, we ensure that....
I gather my time is up. The musical interlude came in.
