Evidence of meeting #68 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nevsun.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I really recommend that you read the testimony of the representative of Nevsun we had in the committee. Actually, I remember that at the end of the committee, our esteemed colleague asked a question and the representative said that he had never heard of any human rights violations in Eritrea. He has said that nobody has ever complained, and that he has never seen anything on the news where the Government of Eritrea would be responsible, or that such human rights violations are happening on the ground in Eritrea.
Would you have something to say about a statement like this?
Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch
I find that to be an absolutely incredible statement. Certainly Eritrea doesn't exactly dominate the headlines, because it's a small country and because there is no independent media, as we talked about. But it is not hard to find out about the human rights situation in Eritrea, and if you're going to be making a major, major investment in a country, I think you would do a bit of background research. It's not hidden, as I said.
We've done reports that outlined some of these issues in the past. Amnesty International has done them, many organizations have done them. There's a plethora of Eritrean diaspora websites that outline some of these concerns. It's not a secret, it's not hidden. You don't have to dig very deep if you want to know.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
This will be my last question.
Vis-à-vis the kinds of standards or principles that potentially could be put in place—and as I say this I'm cognizant of the fact that Canada is a disproportionate player internationally in the mining scene—my impression is that the power of a corporation that is thinking of going into a country like Eritrea, which is cash-poor—the corporation is cash-rich—is maximized in the period before the investment is made. Once you've made your investment, once you've sunk many millions of dollars into the mining site, the power shifts in favour of the government, and therefore it's harder to impose on a company that already has an existing mine, versus one that does not yet have an existing mine.
For example, I could see how independent auditing would be much easier to establish with someone who hasn't yet gone in, as a condition. For one thing, the potential beneficiaries of some form of forced labour—domestic beneficiaries in the regime—will see no profit if the mine doesn't go forward, or if it goes forward with a less competent firm from another country. But once the mine is in place, their incentives have changed as well.
I throw that out as a comment, but I'm also of course inviting your thoughts on that. I think that would dictate, if we have such standards, how they are designed to some degree, just recognizing the practicalities of the way the world works.
Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch
Yes. I agree completely, which again is why companies need to develop these processes before they go in, because, as you say, they do have a lot of leverage. They are cash-rich. But once the mine is operational, it's much, much more difficult.
The position that Nevsun is in now is a difficult one, because a lot of that leverage is gone. But they do still have some leverage. Again, we are hoping that this report, this research, this discussion can kind of serve as a red flag for other companies that are doing business, to use that leverage that they have before they begin operating so that we don't have to have these types of hearings and discussions about Canadian companies operating in repressive environments that have ignored human rights risks until it's too late.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you very much for your testimony today, Mr. Horne. We're very appreciative of your being here.
I wonder if you'd be willing to leave behind copies of the reports you brought in. We can't distribute them until they are in both languages, but we'll try to ensure they are made available to committee members. We would very much appreciate that.
Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch
I can definitely do that.
Thank you very much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you.
Colleagues, thank you.
We are at the end of our time, so the meeting is adjourned.