Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 7th, 2013

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It's really interesting that you bring up the LGBT community.

What kind of tools are specifically geared towards this community? How should we approach our relationship, or what kind of action should we take to promote human rights for this community in particular?

[Esther Major]

For a start, encourage the Honduran authorities to develop a program in conjunction with human rights defenders who work on LGBT issues, with human rights defenders who work on women's and girls' rights issues, with human rights defenders in the community as a whole, and with journalists in the discussion around what would be a good proper protection program for them that they could have faith in and that they could count on. Having those discussions and ensuring that the Honduran authorities move on that area and proceed to engage the local communities and construct a proper protection program for human rights offenders would be a significant move forward. Ensuring a reduction in the levels of impunity for attacks and threats against members of the human rights community, including the LGBT community, would be very welcome as well.

Those are the two areas.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Last, while I was preparing for this committee, I was surprised to learn that 18% of the population lives on under $1.25 U.S. per day.

Could you comment on poverty and what role this plays in instability in Honduras? What are the main obstacles for development in Honduras?

[Esther Major]

Part of that comes back to human rights protection. If human rights were really put at the forefront as the focus across all ministries, it would help. For example, having a proper human rights plan and implementing it across all ministries would help to bring a human rights focus, which perhaps had been absent in the years before, to ensure that human rights offenders, who we've been talking about today, can operate freely, but also to ensure that the government takes a different perspective in terms of the human rights of its population, and protecting the human rights of its population.

On poverty and other issues, there's no doubt that Honduras faces significant challenges, and I don't think we should underestimate it. For example, the levels of violent crime in Honduras are hair-raising. There's no doubt that the levels of poverty are also extremely concerning. I think there are lots of things that can be done by the government, including ensuring a reduction in the impunity for human rights violations as a whole, but increasing the faith of the population in the justice system, for example, and then also putting human rights right at the forefront of all its policies across the board.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you. I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You are, unfortunately. Actually, we all will be out of time, but I just have a question.

With the indulgence of the subcommittee, I'd just like to see the clock as being early enough to allow me to ask one follow-up question to the last point, if that would be okay with you.

I wanted to ask our witness this. We've done some other hearings in another part of Latin America, Venezuela, which also has a very high crime rate, and this is a problem, although Honduras is particularly bad. It exists across the region. In the case of Venezuela, there had been a spike upwards in recent years. I'm not sure if that's the case in Honduras. I recognize it's not strictly speaking a human rights problem in the formal sense, but is there any commentary you can make as to whether something the government is doing is leading to this phenomenally high rate of violent crime? Is it something that is endemic in the culture or in poverty? Is it something that is essentially beyond the government's control? I'm giving you a free field to make any comment you think is appropriate in this regard.

[Esther Major]

I think the lack of real, proper, thorough action in relation to accountability for the police force and the military is fundamental. Without those proper accountability mechanisms for the police, and a greater faith by the population in the mechanisms of justice.... There are areas where we do have real concern about the lawlessness and the levels of violent crime that go on, and of course, the impunity that accompanies those acts of violent crime, regardless if they're human rights violations or if it's just violent crime in the common crime sense. Without proper action in relation to accountability mechanisms for the police force, accountability mechanisms for the military, a greater division between the military and the police.... We have seen the military being used for civilian policing duties, which is of concern to us.

Again, the United Nations working group on the use of mercenaries is coming out now and saying that private security firms are not an answer to the public security problem. That's a very important message for the Honduran authorities in the current context because again, accountability mechanisms for the private security guards are not implemented. They're not upheld. It's getting those accountability mechanisms right, enforcing them, and then also prioritizing human rights and ensuring that human rights defenders, journalists, those working to protect the general population and to help them advocate for their rights, are able to do so freely, free from fear, free from intimidation, and free from attack.

Those are the areas where I would like to see more action from the Honduran authorities. It would no doubt have a wider impact.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Professor Cotler has also asked to ask a question. With the committee's indulgence, let's go to Professor Cotler for one final question.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I had to speak in the House of Commons so I wasn't here during your initial presentation, but I've read your report and know of your work.

I want to address something that you brought up when I came for the Qs and As. You mentioned that the plight of human rights defenders should be a priority on our agenda. Indeed we set up this subcommittee hearing on Honduras, as we described in the preamble to our decision to establish this hearing, because two prominent lawyers and human rights defenders, Antonio Trejo and Manuel Díaz Mazariegos, had been assassinated in Honduras in recent days, and 76 lawyers had been murdered over the last three years.

We know that since we've established a committee, tragically enough, and I understand you mentioned this is in your remarks, in February 2013, José Trejo, the brother of Antonio, was shot and killed the day after he had a meeting with Honduras officials in order to enquire into the situation of his brother's death.

What do we know about the investigation into his particular killing? What do we know about any independent or effective investigation into the killing of the 74 other lawyers in Honduras?

[Esther Major]

I can certainly speak about Antonio Trejo. No one has been held to account as yet. I'm unsure about where the investigation is at the moment. With José Trejo, I understand there is an investigation under way. I don't know what the results of that have been as yet. Obviously, the fact that he had just returned from Tegucigalpa from carrying out those meetings, from speaking to the media about his brother's death and trying to push that agenda was deeply concerning to us.

We want to find out who killed both these individuals. We would like to see that happen as quickly as possible. A really robust investigation must be carried out.

Of course it's exactly as you said. Without a proper robust investigation into these killings and somebody held to account, it sends the message that such acts are acceptable. What's really concerning to us is that without proper accountability for attacks against human rights violations, without a proper protection system for human rights defenders, that's the message that the government is sending. I hope this is not the message they want to send because I understand that the minister for human rights and justice seems to be trying to do her best to do some work in that area.

Unfortunately, until people are held to account for attacks such as the killing of Antonio Trejo, the killing of José Trejo, the threats against the 11 human rights defenders we issued urgent actions on last year, without actually reducing impunity for those crimes, without providing proper protection for human rights defenders, the government is sending the message that such acts are acceptable. That's what we want to see an end to. We want to see the government come out and say, “These acts are not acceptable, and we will have zero tolerance for such acts in this country. This is where we draw the line and move forward. We're not going to have this anymore.” We're not seeing that. That's what we want to see. That's the next step .

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much to all members of the committee for allowing us to engage in the fiction that we haven't gone past our formal time. Of course, in reality we have and I'm grateful to all of you for that indulgence.

I am grateful, Ms. Major, for your taking the extra time to stay on with us. You've been very informative. I certainly feel much better prepared to deal with this issue intelligently than I was coming into this meeting, and I am most grateful to you for that fact.

[Esther Major]

Thank you. Thank you so much for prioritizing Honduras as well. It's a real concern to us, and we really appreciate your providing that time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, I will just tell you one more thing before you go. An expert on North Korea will be attending our parent committee on March 25. You might want to put that into your schedules. We'll deal with such things later.

Thank you very much, everybody.

This meeting stands adjourned.