Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 7th, 2013

[Esther Major]

I agree with you. It's a global concern that doesn't only pertain to Canadian mining companies, but to many international companies operating particularly in, for example, Central America.

In Honduras, there's the context in which there are so many concerns about impunity and the ability of people to speak out and express their concerns without receiving a threat. This last one I just mentioned, the environmental activist, she received her threat just four or five hours after speaking out on TV of concerns about opencast mining.

Where you're operating in that context, I think perhaps even more than usual you absolutely must ensure that the government exercises due diligence in relation to proper consultations with local communities. In particular in Honduras, for example, where there are indigenous populations, that consultation must be carried out in a really particularly careful way. There are some really good standard sets and guidance notes by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Indigenous Peoples. There's plenty of guidance out there as to how those consultations and how human rights impact assessments must be carried out, and perhaps even more so in a context like Honduras where impunity levels are so high and where there are so many concerns around the proliferation of small arms, as well.

Gender concerns must be taken into account. I think it's a very complex context in which to operate, and human rights must be at the forefront of every single policy and decision-making process. That must be emphasized both from abroad to the local government, as well as to the company and other stakeholders.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

Ms. Grewal, please.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Major, for that excellent presentation.

While Honduras did not consistently have civilian governments for much of its existence, and the transition from a military regime to a democracy is fraught at the best of times and requires the participation of our international community, what support have Canada and other democratic states provided the civilian Honduran government? What more can Canada do to encourage a transition towards a liberal democracy?

[Esther Major]

There's so much that Canada can do and has done. There has been a lot of really good involvement post-coup d'état among the international community present in Honduras. I know Canada was very important in coordinating those efforts to provide support.

What we would like to see is Canada really push the government to take a stand on human rights defenders; provide support for the civil society and the community who are working to protect and uphold human rights; work to improve and strengthen the institutions that we've mentioned, that we've talked about today, both in terms of the judiciary, training for the judiciary, support for the judiciary, strengthening those institutions. Really, we would like to see Canada come out strongly on human rights and put human rights at the focus and centre of any agreements and discussions held with the Honduran government because, by doing that, you're ensuring that it is at the very centre of their agenda, as well as yours.

Providing that support for civil society would be really, really important. They are under-resourced. It would be fantastic to see that sort of support provided to these very brave people who go out every day, particularly fighting and advocating on behalf of women and girls, victims of domestic violence, for example, in a country where there are very high levels of violent crime against women and girls. That's not to say the whole population doesn't suffer from the effects of violent crime, but women and girls do suffer from gender-based violence. There are very high levels of gender-based violence in Honduras, so perhaps focus on that as well.

Of course, if Canada comes out with public statements on cases like that of Antonio Trejo, on cases where human rights defenders are attacked, that shows the importance Canada gives to it, but it also provides a leadership role in terms of what other countries, and indeed the country itself, should be doing in relation to human rights defenders.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

A target group for extrajudicial killings in Honduras, as you mentioned in your presentation, is the journalists. The journalists are of course a vital part in establishing a liberal democracy in any country, to ensure the public can hold authorities to account. How can Canada protect journalists working in Honduras?

[Esther Major]

I think it's by encouraging the development of a proper protection program and by ensuring and encouraging the immediate implementation of the special protection measures that are ordered by the inter-American system. We've seen terrible delays in the implementation of protection measures. In fact, in one of the cases I mentioned earlier on, she's had protection measures in her favour since 2009, and they still haven't been implemented. She received three death threats just last year.

What we'd like to see is perhaps Canada encouraging the government to ensure rapid implementation and support in the development of a proper, well-resourced and professionally manned human rights protection program, and then also to support the investigation of crimes against human rights defenders, which obviously trickles down to the wider community as well.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The Government of Honduras has dismissed judges who disagreed specifically with the 2009 coup. Judicial independence is a really vital complement of liberal democracy. How can developed nations with mature legal cultures of independence help countries or groups trying to establish one in their country?

[Esther Major]

It's by providing support for training programs for judges and lawyers, but particularly for judges, perhaps, in the implementation of international human rights instruments. Also, constitutional human rights protection would be crucial in a context like Honduras, where we have seen some judgments that have been of concern last year in relation to women and girls. That would be very useful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We turn now to Dr. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you. I came in partway through your presentation, and I apologize.

You've named every single thing that could go wrong in a non-democratic country. Independent judiciary were not truly independent, if they were able to take part in the coup, etc., of ousting President Zelaya.

We look at the fact that this government currently is unable to do anything. It is unable to speak out. I think you elicited disappointment that the president hadn't spoken out and the general hadn't spoken out loudly enough, and that nothing was happening to investigate human rights abuses to deal with a lack of press freedom, to deal with law enforcement, and with the army being rogue, almost.

What do you think the chances are? What are the things you would do or put in place, if somebody gave you the ability to do it, that would actually ensure that democracy would begin to take a foothold?

There will be an election in 2013. Is that election going to be in any way free and fair, which is another element of democracy we have to worry about? When we look at the fact that there's huge violence against women and girls, and violence against various aboriginal people who are trying to get land claims, etc., what hope is there? What are the structures that one would actually put in place, the things you would do to allow for some kind of power for the government to have? Does the government want that power? Those are the questions I have to ask. Ultimately, what is the position? How does the OAS itself have any ability to do something about what's going on in one of its foremost important states?

[Esther Major]

Coming back to what can be done, I think there is hope in Honduras. There is a vibrant human rights community there who carry on regardless of the threats they receive. I find this amazing.

We have seen some glimmers of hope as well in the government's extending an open invitation to UN and inter-American special rapporteurs. They are the experts in human rights, as you know. We have seen both the UN special rapporteurs and human rights defenders, but also the UN working group on the use of mercenaries visit the country and be able to do that very important work. They've come out with some very important recommendations for the government.

It's very important that we see this built on, that these recommendations not just stay words on paper but form into actions. We'd like to see greater engagement by the government with local human rights activists working in the different areas they work on, both the protection of women's and girls' rights but also wider than that, on general human rights concerns, the concerns of journalist, and engage them in a meaningful conversation about what their needs are and move forward that way.

Coming back to your point about the elections, Amnesty International is concerned that as we go into the election, the situation of human rights defenders could become more precarious as they take on the role of accountability and operate in a situation in which human rights protection is treated with disdain by many of the security forces and others.

We are concerned about the situation of human rights defenders as we go into the elections.

The OAS and the inter-American system have had a very important role. They carry out a very important role in, for example, demanding protection measures in favour of human rights defenders and journalists. We'd like to see the government encouraged by organizations such as the OAS to implement very rapidly those protection measures, but also to take proper action in relation to reducing impunity for crimes against human rights defenders, as well as to implement the important reforms that need to be carried out for the police force to ensure that their corruption is reduced and that strong, robust accountability mechanisms for the police are developed, and indeed for the security forces as well.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

You just have time for one very brief question.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

It's obvious that there's hope and that there are all of these wishes, etc., but what are the concrete tools that can be used to move the agenda forward, and who can use those tools?

[Esther Major]

I would like to see the Honduran authorities work across all ministries to implement human rights protection and ensure that all ministries are working together to ensure the protection of human rights defenders, and in the case we're talking about here, to ensure the proper investigation of attacks against human rights defenders. I think the tools are not necessarily always there.

For example, the accountability mechanisms for the police force need to be improved; there's no doubt about that. That's something the government itself could do something about.

It would be wonderful to see now, as we go into the presidential elections, presidential candidates talking about human rights, setting out what their priorities will be, talking about human rights defenders and their role, explaining what they're going to do to improve accountability mechanisms in the police force and security forces. We would like to hear and see those sorts of things as we go forward now towards the election period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much.

Before we go to our next questioner, I want to remind members of the committee that we do not have those little green buses to take us back to the House of Commons. That means you have to get back on foot. If anybody needs to leave prior to the time at which we wrap up, that's okay; as long as we have three of us here, we can maintain quorum for purposes of receiving testimony.

I turn now to Mr. Schellenberger.

[Gary Schellenberger, Perth—Wellington, CPC]

Thank you.

Thank you for your presentation; it has enlightened me. It becomes very clear from your presentation how important the rule of law is when it is adhered to. When you don't go by the rule of law, you have corruption, poverty, and of course human rights violations, because no one goes necessarily by the rule of law.

In Honduras I'm quite sure the rule of law is precarious at best. The reason for a weak police force may be low pay. These people are in a position in which they can be a little corrupt, and that's how they feed their people.

I'm going to change the direction a little. I come from a rural riding in southwestern Ontario, and of course agriculture is a big part of our community. Agriculture productivity in Honduras is weak, and many regions in the country suffer from serious food insecurity.

Honduras' growing rural population also exerts pressure on the natural resources base, and the country faces environmental issues of land degradation and deforestation. That's a little different from the situation of our rural areas. Our rural areas are shrinking, not in size but in numbers.

I suggest again that it's because of poverty. People have to subsist, so they move to some place where they can get a little piece of land and maybe cut down a tree or two to keep themselves warm at certain times.

What proportion of the Honduran agricultural sector is made up of large foreign or domestic corporations, and what proportion is made up of peasant farmers?

[Esther Major]

That's not an area we've looked at. I'm really sorry not to be able to provide that information off the cuff.

We have ongoing concerns about the land disputes in the northeast of Honduras particularly, but generally there are concerns across the whole country in relation to land disputes between large campesinos, peasant communities, who want to claim the lands or have legal rights to the land as they see it and are arguing through the courts for that, and either landowners or companies who argue that they own the land.

We have concerns about those disputes, the length of those disputes, which have been going on for years, and the precarious situation of many of these communities, which is of real concern to us. Many of these communities will consist of families, up to 400 of them. We've seen 400 families moved off the land without access to running water, to education, to health, all those things that are essential, and particularly for young children.

We have ongoing concerns that the government needs to redouble its efforts to resolve those issues and ensure that these people don't continue living in these precarious situations and that the land disputes are resolved, in order to avoid further very grave situations in the north particularly.

[Gary Schellenberger]

What is your assessment of the ability of the legal profession in Honduras, including prosecutors and lawyers in private practice, to pursue cases and defend the interests of their clients vigorously and independently?

[Esther Major]

Well, as I've said before, the situation of threats doesn't only touch on the lives of human rights defenders, but of justice workers as well and those operating in the justice system, including lawyers.

We've spoken to many lawyers who have come under attack or have been threatened as a result of carrying out their professional duties. I don't know enough about the governance system for the legal profession to speak to that, but there are ongoing concerns about the rule of law in Honduras that extend to the legal profession.

[Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you for that.

I will pass to the next questioner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Actually, you timed that with amazing precision as well, Mr. Schellenberger.

Ms. Liu, the floor is yours.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Major, for your presentation.

I think you really communicated to parliamentarians today the importance of taking immediate action concerning human rights in Honduras. It's a very timely presentation, especially because tomorrow we'll be commemorating International Women's Day. Our thoughts will definitely be with the women and girls of Honduras on that day.

In your answer to Ms. Grewal, you talked about the importance of Canada's work with civil society. Could you elaborate on what these relationships should look like on the ground?

[Esther Major]

Obviously, if we can see Canada coming out publicly in cases like that of Antonio Trejo, that also sets a precedent and the tone that the national government should also be taking in relation to cases like that to make sure that the situation of protection for human rights defenders is right at the forefront of any agenda. Also, make sure in discussions around any area of interaction between the Canadian authorities and the Honduran authorities that human rights obligations in the international legal framework which governs human rights has to be at the centre and forefront of all discussions. It should take into account local communities such as indigenous peoples, but also women and girls, and those particular gender concerns. These discussions would really help to engender that in the government in Honduras as well.

It would be great to see any discussion around business involve those very important consultations with local communities. Engage local human rights defenders in discussions directly as well. That's a great move because it also sends a signal that these people are important, that they have something important to say, and that their opinion is valuable. It may also afford them some protection in some way. It would also ensure that programs of support for local civil society are also carried out, particularly in areas where human rights defenders are very vulnerable.

The LGBT, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, members of that community are particularly vulnerable as well. I don't think I've mentioned them until now, but that community in Honduras has been really vulnerable to attack. We ourselves have carried out urgent actions and have worked a lot with local LGBT activists. It's about making sure that their concerns are taken into consideration in any dealings with the Honduran authorities. That really is such an important move and could be done by the Canadian authorities as well.