Evidence of meeting #82 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was honduran.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you, Mr. Jacob.
Dr. Frank, I see the screen is actually working. Now we get to see what each other looks like.
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
Hi. I'm holding the phone, because I'm not sure where the sound is coming from.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Well, whatever you're doing, don't change it. It's working fine, and that's definitely a step upwards.
Before we let you go—and I do apologize, I would have enjoyed having more time to ask you questions—we have a couple of analysts with us from the Library of Parliament who have asked if you have a copy of the charter cities law in English translation. I think we have one in Spanish. We have wonderful translation facilities for French to English and the reverse, but Spanish stumps us up here.
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
I don't have a copy of the entire law in translation, no. I can ask if I can find it. I myself don't have it, and I haven't seen it in English. I would assume it has been translated, because there has been so much attention to it in the international business press.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
It originally started as an American idea. The concept started in English and the original backers, at least in the early stages, I think were Americans with money.
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
Yes, it was Paul Romer, although he has detached himself from it and says he doesn't support it because of the issues with lack of oversight.
Also, there are two laws I want to underscore. There was a law passed last year that was ruled unconstitutional by the Honduran supreme court, and a new version of it that was passed in late December or early January. So I do want to underscore that you'll want to get the new version of the law, not the one that moved around internationally in the past year.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
I see my analyst nodding, so I think she already knew that. I didn't know that.
Actually, this gives me a chance to ask one last question. You had raised some concerns about the suspension not merely of regular Honduran laws but actually of the constitution itself within the model cities. Was that the thing that caused its supreme court to strike down the first model cities law?
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
I haven't seen the actual supreme court ruling. I certainly saw newspaper reports about it, which were huge.
There were a number of things, but my sense—albeit I'd have to go back and confirm it—is that it was because it did not in fact have jurisdiction for the Honduran constitution. There were a number of other sub-issues within that in terms of the whole ability to make treaties with foreign powers that were granted in the so-called model cities proposal.
I want to underscore that I think 12,000 people signed petitions opposing the model cities, and delivered them to the Honduran government. There was enormous opposition.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Just to be clear, those petitions you mentioned were in opposition to the concept per se, not to the initial model cities law, the first law?
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
Well, they would be specifically about that law, but I think the people in civil society are extremely alarmed about the idea of ceding Honduran territory to outsiders, and in particular outside corporations, who would then be free to exploit workers at whatever level they wanted. This is really terrifying that they could make foreign treaties.... It's a very terrifying concept to cede national territory, and terrifying that the Honduran government itself would say that it as government does not have the power to in fact make laws over its own territory.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Okay. That's very helpful.
Everything you've done has been very helpful, and as I mentioned at the beginning, you've also been very patient with our technical problems. I want to thank you, Professor.
I guess what will happen, as we have a little bit of follow-up to do, is that our clerk will be in contact with you about the materials we have enquired about.
Again, on behalf of the entire subcommittee, thank you very much for attending today.
2:05 p.m.
Professor of History, University of California, Santa Cruz, As an Individual
Thanks to all of you for caring about Honduras, because it means an enormous amount to me personally. Thank you.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative