Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2011

[Rev. Majed El Shafie]

Here is the problem with Iran. When we are speaking about Iran, 99% of the time we are speaking about their nuclear program. We do not speak about their human rights record that much, and I don't know why.

In Iran right now, more than 120 Christians were arrested in a crackdown over Christmas and New Year's 2010-2011. More than 200 were arrested in January 2010 and February 2011.

One of the more highlighted situations is that of Pastor Youcef, the pastor who is right now facing the death penalty in Iran.

When we talk about other minorities, such as the Bahá'í in Iran, on October 11 seven teachers were attacked and arrested in Iran. In August 2004, 500 Bahá'ís were arrested; 13 Bahá'ís in February 2010; 200 were killed from the Bahá'í leadership, mostly through execution, from 1978 through to 1998.

Here, when we talk about the Jewish community in Iran as well, you may remember that in 2000, 13 members of the Jewish community were arrested in Iran on charges that they were cooperators with Israel and Mossad.

So I don't think new sanctions will change dramatically the situation in Iran; however, I support sanctions because they are keeping them under pressure.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My next questions relate as much to Iraq as to Iran and Egypt. They are about discrimination in law.

Discrimination can be exercised not only through violence, but also directly through the law, for example, before the courts. What is being done to sanction discrimination?

Is the problem not precisely due to the fact that Christian minorities are not equal before the law, which means that the recourse to the judicial system is not available? Knowing very well from the outset that their problems will not necessarily be dealt with or not dealt with fairly by a court of law as they would in Canada, minorities will not file a complaint. I would like to hear your comments on this.

[Rev. Majed El Shafie]

When you look at most of the laws in Egypt or in Iraq, it's an issue that's gone on for a very long time. In my report on Iraq and Egypt, we discuss the legal parts, one after another.

There are two problems when it comes to the legal system in Iraq and in Egypt and even Iran. Number one, they always say that Islam is “the” source of legislation and the constitution. I would prefer that they say “a” source, rather than “the” source. There's a big difference. But they say “the source”, so you make it a religious situation here.

Number two is the law itself. When you read the Iraqi constitution, it is written very well. It's not that bad. The same with the Egyptian constitution. You will find problems in it, but it's good in comparison. The problem is not the law; the problem is the enforcement of this law. So when the government closes their eyes, or justice does not take place, justice delayed is justice denied.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Do I still have...?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You have one minute remaining.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

One minute.

In Egypt, there will be an election that will make the government democratically legitimate. We can compare this with what happened in Tunisia, where the Islamist party was democratically elected. We know that a majority of the people do not agree at all with this. We are positively biased due to the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood will be democratically elected by the people.

In your view, how will the situation of Christians be impacted by the fact that the government will be democratically elected but nevertheless be a religious government, as we are seeing right now in Tunisia?

[Rev. Majed El Shafie]

I believe the impact will be very negative on the minority and on the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel. For the first time we saw the Egyptian ambassador running away from his home in Cairo, from the embassy, just a month ago. We can see the preparation.

I agree with you that if the Muslim Brotherhood is elected, it would be elected democratically. Here is the dilemma, and I explained this previously. Most of the Egyptian population is illiterate; they don't even know how to write their own names. They will choose a religion automatically. When more than half of them are under the poverty line because of the corruption of the previous regime, people are hungry. When the Muslim Brotherhood says they will open a shop for them, they'll give them a business, they'll bring them the solution right now, they will automatically elect them because they want the result right now. They don't want results five, ten, or twenty years from now. No, the people are tired now, so they need results now.

The fact that the Muslim Brotherhood will be chosen democratically doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. On this occasion, the people have influence. Most of their finances come from countries like Saudi Arabia; there are big countries supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. That's how I feel the election will go in Egypt this coming month.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you.

That brings the questions to an end. We said at the beginning we'd leave a few minutes for Reverend El Shafie to make a concluding remark, and I invite him to do so now.

[Rev. Majed El Shafie]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, respected members of Parliament, I thank you so much for having me here. Since 2006 I have been coming here and I've developed a wonderful relationship and friendship with most of you, if not all of you.

Today I want to tell you that sometimes I get discouraged. Sometimes I wonder if, despite my coming here and presenting evidence, we ever will see results on the ground. I have confidence and trust in our country, Canada. I have confidence and trust in our system. I believe Canada is the conscience of our world and defender of human rights. Canada can take a step forward and lead, be a voice for the voiceless, as has always been.

If you look behind me, those people who came all the way from Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, and some even further, some of them from the Egyptian community, some of them from the Iraqi community, some of them from a Canadian community—these people care about what's happening there. Our people are dying. I wake up every morning and I don't know if I'm doing enough or not.

Just two days ago I testified in front of the American Congress. The House Foreign Affairs Committee Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, and Human Rights held a hearing on the religious freedom issue. It was chaired by Chris Smith. I almost cried because I didn't see anybody moving to help those people. We're just leaving them behind, and they are my brothers and sisters in the Lord. It's the reality, whoever they are.

I used to be one of them. I used to be a prisoner in Egypt, and I know the pain. Even now I wake up in the night with the screaming in my ears of the victims. Even now when I take off my jacket you can see the scars on my body. I am unable to leave them behind and I'm begging you to take action. This is not the time for diplomacy, this is not the time for talk; this is the time for action. It's time to go back to our ministers, our governments, or our opposition and tell them to push a little bit. Tell them to bring the ambassador here so that we can talk with him. Tell them to connect aid with international trade and improvement of human rights. There are many recommendations. We are not just pointing fingers; we have a direction.

In the end, the only thing that I know from all my years of work is that there are people of faith facing persecution, but they're still smiling. They are in a deep dark night, but they still have the candle of hope. Our enemy has a very strong army, strong weapons, but we have the Lord Almighty. Believe me when I tell you that after every night there is a new morning and a new day, after every storm there is sunshine, and after every persecution there is victory in His name. Believe me when I tell you they can always kill the dreamer but no one can kill the dream. I will keep coming until the end, and I know that I will win.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Reverend El Shafie.

I have a couple of housekeeping items to take care of before I dismiss the subcommittee. The first thing to mention is that our next meeting on Thursday takes place not in this room but downstairs in Room 112 in the north corridor. We have two potential witnesses, one confirmed and one possible. It will be again on the same subject matter, the study on Copts in Iraq and Iran.

Another item I want to mention is that we have a former member and friend of this committee here today, Mario Silva, who spoke this morning very eloquently at a breakfast on Parliament Hill.

It's good to see you, Mario. I'm always glad to see that you're so involved in human rights. Thanks very much.

Okay, everybody, we are adjourned.