Evidence of meeting #15 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was uighurs.
A video is available from Parliament.
President, World Uyghur Congress
Just recently, one of my sons was released because his term was more than over. My other son was transferred to a notorious prison in Urumqi.
Just recently, my son who is in the Chinese prison was released from intensive care at a hospital because he had been beaten so severely in jail. He was transferred back and is still in that notorious prison.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
My deepest sympathies; you are obviously a leader of a repressed people and are suffering that directly yourself.
I thought the idea of having a friendship group with Mongols, Uighurs, and Tibetans was a good idea. I'm the chair of the Parliamentary Friends of Tibet. There are some similarities between those groups, as well as the Falun Gong and Christians there as well, albeit they all suffer different levels of persecution.
This is what I wanted to ask you. You mentioned numbers that were much more substantial, as far as the killings and disappearances are concerned, than those for the other groups. Why is that?
President, World Uyghur Congress
The first and most important thing is that they transferred a large number of Chinese immigrants to the area. They take over the jobs, and they take the lands and the farmland, everything, from the Uighurs, so there could be some social unrest. In order to prevent that social unrest and silence it, they are taking very extraordinary measures. They are killing and intimidating. They're threatening them, telling them not to do anything that shows resentment of the new Chinese immigrants.
The second important reason is that east Turkestan is the energy hub for the Chinese government. Not only is there plenty of energy, but at the same time there is the energy windfall from central Asia as well. By transferring large numbers of the Chinese population to east Turkestan, Chinese ambition is expanding into central Asia to control central Asia as well as to destabilize them in the future.
Third, sadly, the Chinese government is using this kind of Uighur issue and the Tibetan issue just to change the national agenda and to bolster the nationalistic view of the Chinese. They do it from time to time when they have an internal crisis, a domestic crisis elsewhere in the Chinese provinces. When they are persecuted.... For example, I gave you a number of shooting cases, all of them well reported, but the Chinese don't report them. They don't provide this kind of information to their domestic audience.
Conservative
President, World Uyghur Congress
There are around 2,000. Since 20 years ago, probably, including this decade, there are 2,000 Uighurs living in various parts of Canada.
Liberal
Head, Uyghur Canadian Society
If I may, I will tell you about the Uyghur population.
I think Uyghurs constitute the most recent and the least numerous minority in Canada. There are about 2,000 of us, and we are dispersed across Canada, from Halifax to Vancouver. Our people mostly live in Toronto and Montreal.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Ms. Kadeer, in your statement you went through a list of things that you thought the Canadian government could do, including raising the Celil case, speaking up at the UN, and the friendship group, but one of the things I didn't hear was acceptance of refugees. Is that something that is a concern in terms of Uighurs seeking refugee status in Canada? If so, what has been your experience?
President, World Uyghur Congress
We missed some of those points because of the time limit.
It is very difficult to find safe shelter around the world, except in the western countries. Most of the Uighur refugees are sent back to China by the trade dealers and some others. They are extradited to China and persecuted. Actually, I have spoken to this issue from time to time with government officials. I mentioned this in my first visit to Canada. Recently, the horrible experience shows that—especially in Southeast Asia, Thailand and some other places—China is very powerful. They are sending all the refugees back to China and persecuting them. So again, through this committee, I sincerely request that Canada help to relocate those Uighur refugees in these areas.
Also, the Uighur refugees in Canada, we are happy with the Canadian people and the government.
Thank you.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
I have two questions with regard to the recent attacks that Mr. Neve raised. The media described it as a terrorist attack and I think Mr. Neve referenced that.
What is your reaction to its characterization as a terrorist attack? What are the implications of it? What are the implications of that incident for your people?
President, World Uyghur Congress
The Chinese government is going to use this opportunity to intensify its crackdown on Uighurs.
Many Uighurs did not realize this was a terrorist act, by the way. It is the policy of the Chinese government that created this kind of environment in China without addressing the root cause of the problem. As I give you the list of examples, the Uighur people in China could not find any legal venues to express their anger to the government or just demand that the government address their legal grievances.
As we have seen before, whatever happens in China, it's Chinese policy to just blame the Uighurs all the time. According to Chinese news, within eight minutes there were more than 29 people killed and more than 133 people wounded. They also said that there were 10 people with black suits. Later on they said they killed four and one was arrested. If the Uighurs were responsible for this attack, it should be more clear.
The Chinese government should provide details of who they were and why they did what they did. I also urge the international community to put pressure on the Chinese government to provide a clear picture of exactly what happened.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
A number of these have run over, not because the questions weren't good but because the answers were so thorough. This leaves us only enough time for one question from Mr. Schellenberger and one from Mr. Benskin in order to meet our deadline.
Mr. Schellenberger.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
The report from the Library of Parliament indicated that many Uighurs are the victims of forced organ harvesting in Chinese military prisons and hospitals. What information can you share on this? Is there any indication as to where these organs are going?
President, World Uyghur Congress
As I indicated in my brief statement, thousands of people disappear each year in China. We can only assume where these people end up and that for most of them, their organs are exported or imported. There are illegal gangs in China that sell these organs. They have a very close relationship with the Chinese police state. It's the same thing with drug trafficking
We don't know exactly, but we have a strong doubt, a strong prediction, that the organs of those disappeared Uighurs and some other people are being sold on the black market.
The current information we have received regarding detentions as of July 5, 2009, 140 Uighurs were being transferred to different places. We still don't know where they are.
There is the daughter of one teacher, 19 years old, who was wounded in the leg. Most of them were transferred to a military hospital and all of them disappeared. We can assume that those people are being sold along with organs. For more than five or six years, we don't know the whereabouts of those people.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you all for being here.
I have a brief question for either of you.
Much of the focus has been on state and Uighur relationships. Very often when you have these types of relationships, state and an ethnic group, there tends to be a different relationship sometimes between the people on the ground. What is the relationship between the Uighur population and the Chinese people themselves, not the government, but the Chinese people, your Chinese neighbours? Is it as hostile as it is with the government?
Independent Researcher, Ex-President, Uyghur Canadian Association, As an Individual
Ms. Kadeer has given me permission to answer your question.
There are two kinds of Chinese immigrant population there. One type is the early comers of the 1950s. Because they have been living in the area for a long time, they understand the Uighur culture and they are very sympathetic to Uighurs. They don't like the newcomer Chinese settlements.
Now the interests of the local people, including the early Chinese settlers, are threatened by the large number of Chinese immigrants to the area, and they are coming with incentives. The government gives them free housing and a tax exemption for 10 years and they can now grab land. It is theirs, and the government pays nearly 200,000 renminbi, or $40,000 U.S., just for settling in the area.
There is a huge conflict of interest between newcomers and the early settlers and also the local people. Also, there are limited water resources in the area, so the early settlers are sympathetic to Uighurs, and the newcomers try their best by getting the government support to grab as much as they can.
President, World Uyghur Congress
Initially the contradiction was the Chinese state and the Uighur people. Now because it is just a conflict of interest between the newcomers and the Uighurs and others, now that everything is at stake, people don't like each other that much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you, Mr. Benskin.
Thank you to our witnesses and to the colleagues who remained here to allow us to finish the meeting.
Because of the very tight time limit—we have gone past by about 26 minutes and 30 seconds—we all have to run, so I'm going to have to end the meeting more abruptly than I would like under the circumstances. That is not by way of dissuading you from thinking that we take your testimony very seriously. We're very grateful you came to tell us about what really is a very important human rights matter. Thank you from all members of the committee from all parties.
The meeting is adjourned.