Evidence of meeting #25 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was believe.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
The nuclear issue continues, of course, to be something that we are all watching very carefully. Do you believe that President Rouhani and others are actually negotiating in good faith?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
I believe President Rouhani does stand for it. They want recognition of a right to enrichment. I talked to so many politicians in Washington, D.C. They understand this, and I think that is part of the final deal. You have to meet somewhere in the middle. Of course, no party can get the whole thing from negotiation.
In Iran just last week there was a conference of supporters of Saeed Jalili, the former chief nuclear negotiator, and they raised grave concern that Iran gave out a lot. So we have one force inside the country. They pushed President Rouhani not to give. On the other hand, the international community also has a legitimate concern over the nature of nuclear programs.
I think maybe the real solution really is recognition of nuclear enrichment but under very heavy supervision and inspection by the United Nations International Atomic Energy Agency, and also maybe a sort of international consortium to make sure the program is not going to divert to detonization. That is maybe a permanent solution.
If that is still part of the negotiation in a comprehensive agreement, I think, yes, genuinely President Rouhani can continue. Otherwise, unfortunately, this is just an order. At any time the Supreme Leader can stop him or ask him to go in another direction.
The point is, if the international community can close this negotiation within a timeframe of six months, that would be the best option to address the international communities under negotiation. Otherwise there might be a chance of President Rouhani being more under pressure, and then we don't know what will happen next.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
You're over by about two minutes, Madam Sgro. I'm sorry about that.
We do have to cut short the time for the other questioners. I can only give you four minutes each in order to accommodate the time constraints we face.
Mr. Schellenberger.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Ms. Haghighatjoo, is the law of the land in Iran sharia law or some sort of sharia law?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
The Guardian Council has been there to make sure that legislated bills are not a gain in sharia law. Sometimes even if a law becomes a gain in sharia law, there is the expediency council that would arbitrate in favour of public interests. But in general, yes.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
If there are gains to a more democratic and human rights friendly country, what's to say the Supreme Leader may respond with force? An election or so ago, the country seemed to be going a little more in the right direction, and then there was force put on the people.
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
I am sorry. Can you rephrase it? I couldn't understand.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
If there were democratic gains made in the country....
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
If there were human rights benefits, and the Supreme Leader doesn't think this should happen, does he then put force on the electorate, on the people?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
I think if democratic forces were to be more powerful, they could gain a majority in public and in institutions and the real power of the Supreme Leader would shrink. That is the idea for having a pragmatic way of giving more room to a democratic government. But in general, I believe to have a democratic country we really have to change the constitution.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Ms. Bryan, I have a question.
Do you feel that your organization is making a positive difference in Iran? Can you state how you would measure that success?
Vice-President, National Democratic Institute
That's a very difficult question to answer.
I think we are having a positive impact on the margins. We cannot operate inside the country, so we are working with individuals outside the country and using technology to engage citizens over the Internet. Given the security concerns and the risk that citizens are at internally, it's very difficult to have a robust engagement, which we would have in most countries that we work in.
I think the gains that we see, while they are on the margins and they may be small, are very important in the long run. I think that's the message for the international community, that there must be engagement, whether it's on the margins or not.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Witnesses, thank you for your testimony.
I'm the newest member to this committee, so it's been quite a learning experience on many levels. I thank you for sharing your thoughts and your insight with us.
You had mentioned a couple of times, in terms of the international community helping to make a difference, that it is important that the international community maintain pressure going towards 2016 in order to help facilitate the changes that need to happen in Iran.
What type of pressure are you envisioning?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
That's a good question.
First of all, practically, there's working to make sure that in the October version of the universal periodical review of human rights, the issue of Iran's human rights will be addressed. For that, I believe that your country should work by July.
Also, your country can ask other countries to put requests for Iran to allow international observers inside the country, even though Iran may not accept. That would have a direct impact on having a sort of competitive election. Still it's far beyond a free election.
Second, Iran could be asked to take a small, but effective measure, such as publicizing the result of each polling station. This is very simple. That would prevent systematic fraud. Also, we should empower citizens to monitor and report fraud.
Technically, it's asking Iran to be transparent, and even if Iran doesn't want to change discriminatory laws, holding transparent elections is important.
This pressure should come through Canada, through the European Union, in any negotiations on human rights issues. This issue should be brought up with Iran's diplomats around the world. In general, there should be political pressure. Use all diplomatic means to address the issue of free elections inside the country.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Ms. Bryan—and either one of you can answer this—you brought up the fact that the communications you have or the dissemination of information is happening through the use of electronic media. So I guess I would ask both of you, how much access does the general public in Iran have to the Internet, to web-based media, web-based news and information?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Actually, for that, in general there is access, but it's very slow. One solution that Iranian activists who are experts in ICT suggested is giving access to the population to the Internet via satellite. That, if I am correct, needs real funds. If that is a multi-nation project to provide the Internet via satellite, I think that would assure Iranians access to information. The dissemination of information is a basic tool and means for creating a democratic government. I think this is one of the most important projects supporting a democratic Iran inside the country, Internet via satellite.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
You are actually over your time, but Ms. Bryan hasn't had a chance to respond yet.
Vice-President, National Democratic Institute
I would just agree with what Fatemeh said.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you very much.
You're actually quite a bit over your time, Mr. Benskin. I appreciate your conscientiousness in asking, rather than launching into another question, which is so often what occurs. Not that I'm pointing fingers at anybody whatsoever.
To our guests, I want to thank you very much for attending today. This has been very useful testimony for us. As you may be aware, we've been monitoring in this subcommittee the situation in Iran, with particular reference to the status of women and the ongoing struggles that you have in your country, for a number of years now, and your update is very helpful to us. Thank you very much indeed.
Before you go, Mr. Sweet.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I think this may be a desire of all my colleagues. I know that we've finished the questioning, but do either of the witnesses know of an update they can give us on Shirin Ebadi?