Evidence of meeting #25 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was believe.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Do you feel being before us today will put you at risk if you returned?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
That matches very closely the years of reports we've heard coming out of Iran, but I thought it was worth putting that on the record.
President Rouhani has completed his first year, pretty well. Listening to you now, you sound more optimistic than anybody I've heard speaking of Iran in the last five years. Do you see him as that dynamic a change from the last president?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Of course, in no major way can you compare Rouhani to Ahmadinejad. He was a disaster and very unfortunate for the nation.
I am optimistic for several reasons. First of all, if you want to bring change, you have to be hopeful. You have to envision the future and try to reach that future.
Second, we have democratic forces inside the country, even though the oppression is so heavy inside the country. But this is a force inside the country, even though maybe in terms of some human rights standards this situation hasn't changed since Rouhani came to power because the judiciary is independent from the government. In other words, President Rouhani has no power over the judiciary, but he cares about these issues. He wants to open up the political atmosphere. He wants to give more room to democratic forces inside the country, and he has to navigate.
It's a very difficult job. He thinks he has to start with the economy first. If he is successful in addressing and by mutual agreement closing the nuclear file, and having sanctions lifted, people will feel a little bit empowered economically, and then through that, they can move to political reforms. It's very slow.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
You're touching on something that's very critical here.
Professor Akhavan was before our committee. He spoke to us about the fact that it was very critical that the synergy happen within the country to move it forward to a more democratic nation. What I'm hearing from you today is for Rouhani to be successful, he has to get the economy moving and be seen by the rest of the international community to be moving things forward so sanctions are lifted, so at some point we have to start backing away from the sanctions and encouraging this by backing away. Am I hearing you correctly?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
I think it does have several components. The social issue is multi-layered and complex. I believe to have people support in general a democratic country, you have to address their everyday life challenges, which is the economy. That is pretty much attached to international sanctions. This doesn't mean we have so much mismanagement in the country. I don't want to say everything is tied to the sanctions, but technically those go together.
Giving more room to Rouhani, I believe, would give him more power to win the majority of seats in the next parliamentary election. Otherwise even this Parliament would stop progress on the nuclear issue.
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
One minute is pretty good, I'll take it.
We've heard reports over the years about the atrocious violation of human rights, of torture, detainment. Has there been a significant change that you're aware of since this new president came in? Has there been any improvement? Has anybody been released?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
So that side is still as dark as it always has been.
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
That's true.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
That's sad to hear, because for a few a moments, you had me very excited about the potential. I guess we have a way to go yet.
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Yes. As I said, on human rights issues, other organizations have been engaged. The only tools Mr. Rouhani has, negotiation, lobbying, going to [Inaudible—Editor], releasing a few political prisoners, but this is an authoritarian regime. We know the nature of authoritarian regimes.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for your time and your presentations.
Dr. Haghighatjoo, as a member of the Iranian Parliament, what reforms do you think are necessary in the governing structure? Do you believe that UN resolutions are an effective means to pressure the Iranian government? What about sanctions? What can Canada do bilaterally to improve the human rights situation in Iran? Multilaterally, do you believe that the report of the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran has significance? Can you also elaborate on the status of Iran's nuclear program? Do you believe there is a link between Iran's nuclear ambitions and human rights violations in that country?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
I will start with the special rapporteur and human rights issues and Canada's role. I believe this has a great impact, even though the authorities in Iran say they don't care, it is biased, and so on. I am telling you, based on my experience, if there were no pressure from the international community, they would do worse.
Even though the situation is not good, even though the record of human rights violations is high in the country, imagine if this pressure wasn't there what the record would be. I would like to use this opportunity to show appreciation to Dr. Ahmed Shaheed for his strong will in continuing his work. This gives voice to the voiceless.
I appreciate Canada for standing firmly on the issue of human rights. I believe that if these human rights violations, including lack of free and fair competitive elections, are recorded on United Nations human rights documents, that may have an impact in the middle or longer term, if not immediately. Once you do these actions, they have long-term effects. The change doesn't come overnight to the country. So please be supportive. Keep doing what you are doing. I think it is important.
In terms of sanctions, I believe the international community should use smart sanctions. Use more diplomatic sanctions and try to engage Iran on other levels. Give support to civil society inside the country. I believe supporting civil society would definitely help. Once you empathize, you can't believe.... You save the lives of so many Iranians, so many individuals. Yes, systematic violations have been going on, but you have saved the lives of so many people. This is important also.
In terms of the nuclear issue and human rights violations, I think there is a link. A few years ago, almost a decade ago, the authority identified four challenges: the nuclear challenge, human rights issues, Middle East peace talks and, I am sorry I have forgotten the last one.
The leadership decided to take a stand on the nuclear issue because they thought they could mobilize people around the goal. But once it was taken to the second step of human rights issues, they couldn't mobilize people, because people of Iran would not agree on the violation of human rights. So I think nuclear negotiations go well, and I believe President Rouhani is genuine in addressing the issue and will close the file and give access to visits to the sites.
I visited most of the nuclear sites in Iran when I was a member of Parliament, but on the other hand human rights issues are very important. The international community should not forget to address that, because if you have a democratic government inside Iran, you can make sure that a democratic government, while it's accountable to its own people, would respect international standards as well.
Am I missing something?
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
No, but I have another question.
Could you please tell us something about the discrimination against women in relation to gender segregation, marriage, divorce, and mandatory dress? Could you also elaborate on Iranian restrictions for women's education? How do women activists fare in trials, prisons, and the media? Do you believe that Mr. Rouhani has kept his promise to improve women's rights in Iran?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
As you know, women outnumber men in university, and the rate of literacy in the country is over 90%. So, compared with other neighbouring countries, the population in general is educated.
In terms of women's issues, we face a patriarchal attitude, which is a global issue—it's not just for Iran—on one side. On the other side, because we have an Islamic government inside the country—and I believe patriarchy is rooted in all institutions, including religion—religion is used as a tool to justify this discrimination against women. We see discrimination at all levels, and it is embedded in our laws.
There has been discrimination against women, but women are not silent. Women have been active agents for change inside Iran. We have powerful women's movements. You've seen so many vocal women inside the country.
Actually, in terms of education, during the time we were in power, we lifted restrictions on women's education, but now the current government wants to say that there are certain majors for women, and certain so-called male majors, such as mining, and so on. They want to actually limit women's access to those so-called male majors.
Also, they are trying to put another quota for men. Usually in the international community we talk about quotas for women, to give more access to women. Because women outnumber men at university—and there is an entrance exam for public colleges—the government actually wants to limit women's access. They have started with medical schools, where the number of women admitted is limited to 50%, not higher. They don't want to admit more than 50% women.
Right now the country is shifting its anti-natalist policy, which was implemented in 1992, to a pro-natalist policy. The Supreme Leader is advocating for that. He is pushing for a pro-natalist policy. That means we will face another layer of discrimination due to a pro-natalist policy.
The deputy president for women's affairs is one of the great women in the country. I would say that women's rights activists really tried hard to convince President Rouhani to appoint this lady. She is a lawyer. I believe that because President Rouhani feels pressure from women, he will be kept accountable by women's rights activists to meet his promises on women's issues.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you.
We went significantly over on that particular question. I didn't stop it, because it was the witness answering, not the questioner, that caused that to occur.
Ms. Sgro, you'll have the same amount of time as everybody else did, but the last two members, NDP and Conservative, will have their times reduced accordingly to allow us to conclude on time.
Ms. Sgro, go ahead, please.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I am filling in today, if that's even possible, for the Hon. Irwin Cotler, who is hoping to get here still, but he's tied up in some other important work.
Welcome to both of you.
I have been involved to some extent on some of the issues with the PMOI and supporting the opposition parties. In particular, I continue to be very concerned about the people in Camp Ashraf and the so-called Camp Liberty, and the desire for them to have some freedom and to be able to move from there. Clearly, from what I have seen in the work that I have done, it's been the women, led by Mrs. Rajavi, who have always shown the leadership. So if President Rouhani is concerned, he should be. But President Rouhani has still continued to execute in the last while far more people under his jurisdiction than previous people in his position.
Is the pressure really getting to him to pay attention to the fact that the world is watching what they're doing?
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Your question is about execution, and not about Camp Ashraf, right?
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
No, it's about both. You can comment on both of them. I only have so much time, so please....
Chief Executive Officer, Nonviolent Initiative for Democracy, As an Individual
Yes, unfortunately in Iran's Islamic penal code, capital punishment is there and even they use it for drug smugglers, and so many of those executions have been used against drug smugglers and other varieties of things. As I said, this has been handled by the judiciary system. Of course, putting pressure on Rouhani's government, on the government in Iran in general, would to some extent make the government accountable. But I don't believe Rouhani technically can do anything on issues where he does not have power. The situation requires responsibility and power.
On the issue of Camp Ashraf, I think the best way to solve the issue is to first convince the leadership, Maryam Rajavi and others, to either accept them both...because as I've been following this, they want a camp in another country. They don't want people to be divided into different countries.
I think they have to solve that first, and all countries have to give asylum status to those who live in Camp Liberty. I doubt that the Iraq government would accept them there. In terms of humanitarian assistance, I think also Canada can help by lobbying and negotiating with various countries in terms of the situation in Camp Ashraf. If every country accepts—I believe that 3,000 people are still out there and distributing these 3,000 people around the world is an important task that can be done.