Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 3rd, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

In mining...?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Yes, in mining....

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay. I did not know that. All right, thank you.

Mr. Marston, I'll go to you next.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Kyriakakos, oftentimes we ourselves and the government are in disagreement on points of view and perspectives, but the testimony on Eritrea that's come before this committee is completely offside with what you're telling us here today. I think it's important that we hear both sides of the story.

In your remarks—and I may have heard you wrong, so I want to give you a chance to clarify—you said the 2% tax originated in the diaspora. The testimony we have is that the tax is enforced by the government—I will state it was a media report—and that there are threats of violence and other illicit means used to gather that particular tax. As Mr. Sweet indicated, from the information we've received here, there's no end result, where you see rehabilitation happening, and it gives the impression it's just going into some official's pocket some place.

Our party takes great interest in the reports that come from rapporteurs from the United Nations. We partner with Amnesty International all the time. That is an organization of particular integrity, in our view. There's a contradiction that I'm hearing between your testimony and the evidence that has come from these sources that we have a certain level of faith in. So, I'm surprised at your testimony. I was expecting it to be somewhat more frank, because every indication is that there are horrendous human rights violations happening in that country every day. There's no justification that I can see for any form of defence of that at all.

You're free to respond as you wish on this, but I'm taken aback by your testimony today, sir.

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to explore that side.

The diaspora tax—the original name in the Tigrinya language was the healing and rehabilitation tax—was established as a request from the diaspora. The issue of social justice was a prominent issue after independence. We have a country that had been destroyed, and there were people who had been living outside of Eritrea, and there were people who had suffered inside. We had 20,000 orphans, 60,000 handicapped people, and all the social impacts of 30 years of war.

The diaspora came immediately and said, “what are the grounds for terrorism?” It's the reduction of poverty. It's addressing social justice. Social justice could not occur without the contribution of the diaspora, so it was up front. They said, “Let's implement and help with 2% of our...”, because prior to that, we had been helping with 10% or 15%. So the 2% was legalized in 1991 and rehabilitated 20,000 orphans, 60,000 handicapped people, and started building the basic institutions.

Today, Eritrea has met seven of the eight millennium goals in 20 years. This is a UN statistic.

As for the diaspora tax, the people who came to you here have eloquently avoided telling you that they have been educated in Eritrea, freely, with the diaspora money, with the 2% contribution that we have sent them. Life expectancy in Eritrea from 1991 to 2011—the last statistics—has improved from 39 to 65. We, the diaspora, assisted with their education, improved their health status and the environment, and sponsored them to Canada.

Their relationship is not a relationship we have to want to build, as in Iraq, in Libya, and in Syria. We are the social fabric of Eritrea. It's different. We have nine nationalities. We have many religions that have been harmoniously coexisting for many years, and they do not allow things to happen like those in Somalia. It's the social fabric, but it's also the political conscience of the government that is there. We give the benefit of the doubt, even if the government has misgivings, and even if we see the shortcomings, because they're liberators. They prevented genocide. For 30 years, we were hammered with napalm by the Soviet Union, and we survived. We were not there. We were in the diaspora. These people stayed there and prevented that genocide. They didn't allow a Rwanda to happen there. So that appreciation gives enough benefit of the doubt, even to faults of the government.

They are ordinary people. They don't own houses. They don't own cars. They run in the city with sandals on. They go to ordinary weddings of ordinary people. They haven't changed. It's also difficult at the same time to change some of the mentality. We will give them the chance, because they deserve it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Ms. Grewal, you're next.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for your time and your presentation.

Mr. Kyriakakos, could you please tell us how the presence of Nevsun Resources Ltd. negatively impacts those conscripted into the national service? Do you believe there is a connection between Nevsun and the funding of armed coalition groups within that region?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Thank you for the question.

The only statistics we have are the statistics available for the Eritrean government. I'm not a source of them, but because we follow these issues, they are issues at heart.

The government has immobilized 110,000 soldiers. For the ones who work at Nevsun, Nevsun knows the details about them. We have zero tolerance of human rights abuses, because these are the principles of the Eritrean liberation. There's no liberation and freedom without respecting human rights. The direction we know is there.

With Nevsun, they posted a few things after they were accused, and there was more detail. The Government of Eritrea at that time actually gave details on how many people worked there, how much was paid in salary, and the conditions. But there was a huge cultural bias. When I saw the initial report that said the workers sat together and eight people ate off one plate, this has been happening for centuries in Eritrea, okay? So when we see those kinds of biased reports, we really know that this report was not written on the ground. It was written somewhere far away in reference to what is not happening there.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Does the Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations support the UN sanctions against Eritrea, and what other steps do you believe Canada could undertake to appropriately address these human rights violations?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

It's stated here there's no peace and no war. If Eritrea is not in compliance with the treaty obligations, it's not because a tiny bit of ground has not been returned to Eritrea. It's the threat that it poses to security and peace. If there are no confidence-building measures between the two countries, then there is no possibility of demilitarizing the area. What probably hasn't been said many times is that Eritrea has about 300,000 armed soldiers, and Ethiopia has the ability within six weeks or months to have a million soldiers. It has this in reserve soldiers.

If the situation is not demilitarized...because there is no actual threat and there is no improvement. Human rights will not improve and agricultural development will not happen.

Canada has a role in pushing for the implementation of the already existing treaty. That will be the biggest confidence-building measure that is necessary on the ground to help defuse the tension. I think that would be.... Other forms of help.... I mean, as a coalition of communities, we are not politicians to be able to really identify that, but we know what the biggest obstacle is there.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Could you please tell us about the conditions in Eritrean prisons? Are the prisoners treated differently based on the crimes they have supposedly committed? For example, are journalists or government officials treated differently from those arrested for religious reasons?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Our recommendation to the government whenever we can talk, when the officials come here, is that though we may not be able to have the institutions of the west, we need to move forward to save the next generation from this huge migration. It's not only an Eritrean migration. It's an African migration. It's a very sad combination of migration, human trafficking, and human tragedy.

We will support, as Eritrean Canadians, to improve, to add our little bit to the improvement of relations between Eritrea and European countries, and Canada in particular, in order to enable Eritrea to come out of this crisis, because we believe this is a crisis. The United Nations itself has said it's a crisis.

I don't think I can add more, because as a community leader I do not have specifics on where the United Nations' sanctions are and what's going to happen in the future, but we will always advocate for lifting the sanctions.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have time remaining?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

No. I'm afraid I've actually allowed this round to go over by about a minute.

Mr. Benskin, you're next.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In your presentation and a number of times in your responses, you've raised the issue of cultural bias and so forth, and that things are not as they appear, or people don't see them on the ground. So I'm asking you directly, what in your opinion is the human rights situation in Eritrea?

My colleague, Mr. Sweet, has spoken. I'm new to the committee, so I don't have as in-depth experience on the subject as Mr. Sweet and my colleague, Mr. Marston, but I learned there has been in-depth testimony as to the human rights situation in Eritrea. If I understand you, you're basically saying that they are wrong, mistaken, or whatever. So what are we missing? What is it that we are not getting about the human rights situation in Eritrea?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Eritrea is a small country. Its diplomatic efforts and media access are limited. There is confusion, so I will bring you some simple examples here. We have a decision from an Israeli court in which they brought 20 alleged Eritrean refugees to deport them. The court decided, after finding evidence, that.... This is from August 26—

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I'm sorry, the question I'm asking is what is happening. I'm not asking what other countries are finding. I'm asking you what is happening in Eritrea that we're not getting.

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

Yes, I will conclude here.

Nineteen of the 20 people who went to court in that particular court in Tel Aviv happened to be Ethiopian. The number of refugees reflected outside, in IOM or international statistics, may refer to Eritrean citizens. Many of them are not Eritrean citizens.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

But what is happening—?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

I will answer the question.

On the ground, human rights issues, particularly pertaining to military service, have to improve.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

They have to improve how?

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

The border demarcation will defuse the tension. The youth will be able to be demilitarized. Development will be able to happen. Lifting the sanctions would allow remittances and the 2% tax to be directed for development.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I'm sorry. I'll be blunt; I'm a blunt person. My feeling right now is that you're skirting around an issue rather than giving me a direct answer.

The question I'm asking you is about what is happening in Eritrea now, in terms of human rights activities, that we may be misinterpreting. I'm not talking about whether or not we should be lifting sanctions. I'm asking about what is happening that you are saying is not happening and that other witnesses are saying is happening.

[Lambros Kyriakakos]

There's an exaggeration of the numbers. There is an exaggeration in the description. There is—

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There is an exaggeration how?