Evidence of meeting #31 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was diaspora.
A video is available from Parliament.
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
—of the numbers that are witnessed here.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
You said there was exaggeration in the description. How is there exaggeration?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
We're talking about 60,000 or 40,000 living in Eritrea—the numbers fluctuate.
Since independence, more people have returned to Eritrea than have fled from Eritrea. Eritrea had a population of two million people and now has a population of four million people. The number of returnees actually is higher than the number of people fleeing over the 23 years, so this is inaccurate. Are people actually leaving? The youth are leaving.
So the inaccurate statistics are one factor. They are an exaggeration.
The intensity of the human rights abuses that happen, to Eritreans who live there and who visit Eritrea, are more because of the problem that we don't have institutions. Our justice system has not really reached the level that is desired to have proper processes and to act in such a way that it will guarantee a human rights process the way that would be perceived in the west.
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
So we lack institutions, but we have to examine the causes of why we lack those institutions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
I gave you an extra minute there. Thank you very much, Mr. Benskin.
We'll go to Mr. Woodworth. I'll just mention to our colleagues that we are running past time. I know some people may have to go to the House of Commons. I'll just ask that we have at least one New Democrat stay here. In order to keep testimony, we need at least one opposition member.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you to the witnesses for appearing today on what I know is a very sensitive issue and an important one for all concerned.
Did I understand you to say, Mr. Kyriakakos, that there would be no consequences visited upon expatriate Eritreans who fail to pay the 2% tax?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
Yes, that's correct.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I wasn't personally familiar with this, but apparently there is an audio recording made by Semere Ghebremariam O. Micael, who was the head of the Eritrean Consulate General in Ontario, of a presentation made on April 21, 2013, in which Mr. Micael apparently informed the gathering that Eritrean citizens would be precluded from investing in Eritrea unless they paid the 2% tax.
Were you aware of the existence of that audio recording?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
I think I'm aware of it because CBC aired it at that time.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Is it that you disagree with Mr. Micael and that he is wrong to say that this consequence would be visited upon people who did not pay the tax?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
I think there is a distinction. People can go and visit Eritrea. To invest in Eritrea, you have to be a taxpayer.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
So when you said that there would be no consequences visited upon people, you didn't mean no consequences; you just meant that they might be physically safe if they visited Eritrea but they would not have other rights—for example, the right to invest.
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
Correct.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
All right.
I wasn't here to hear this evidence personally, but the subcommittee was apparently told that there have been threats against Eritrea-located family members in order to compel Eritreans in Canada to pay the tax.
Is it possible that something like that might be happening?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
The Eritrean Canadian communities have a history of 30 years here. It's been 22 years since the implementation of the 2% rehabilitation tax. We have heard about this issue in the last two years.
Why wasn't this reported to police? Why has no legal decision from any court in Canada or all over the world reported that there was an issue of extortion or forced payment? There are no legal documents, actually. There are only witnesses saying that.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Is it possible that these witnesses, who perhaps are poor and powerless, and who perhaps have no access to the legal system in Canada, may perhaps have been subject to threats by well-meaning but erring officials in Eritrea?
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
No. I can positively tell you that the social fabric of the Eritrean community would never allow such a mood to be developed. We would have zero tolerance for that.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
So the committee then is faced with the choice of either accepting the evidence that there have been some threats made or accepting the comment that you just made.
Acting Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations
I would suggest that there be further investigation with details, with reported details, of any people who have done that. We don't want anybody, in the name of the Eritrean community or representatives, to act upon other Canadians that way.
We would like to see the police investigations report. Then we'll be able to comment on that.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I won't ask anything more, but I do find that it becomes difficult to do that when there are people in a relatively helpless position who are complaining about a government, although in Canada we have a robust system of justice to allow that.
In any event, I appreciate your answers. You've made the choice for the committee very clear.
I will cede any time that I have remaining.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
As it turns out, you have no time remaining. In fact you're over a little bit. But in that you're in good company, because everybody else was over too—except for Mr. Sweet, who was under by three seconds.
I have a question, if I could, just before we let you go. You mentioned earlier that four Canadian companies engaged in mining operations, and I'm surprised by that. I'm aware of Nevsun; in fact we'll have a lawyer who did a human rights investigation with regard to Nevsun's practices appearing before this committee on Thursday. I'm aware of a second Canadian gold mining operation, but I wasn't aware of the other two.
Could you perhaps fill us in? You may not know the names, in all fairness, but if you just happen to have that information, we would be grateful to you for that. We obviously have a strong interest in Canadian mining operations and their behaviour in any country, including yours.
