Evidence of meeting #48 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Thank you for your testimony today.
Do students who receive higher education, such as here in Canada, return to Rwanda to pass on their knowledge? Have you any percentage figures that you may relate to us on how this knowledge is helping those people on the ground in Rwanda?
December 4th, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Absolutely, and I thank the honourable member very much for the question.
I have a very good friend who was the first Rwandan to be accepted in the faculty of law at McGill. He graduated in 2011. In his last year of law school, he interned at the Supreme Court in Rwanda.
Lo and behold, about a month ago I also had the same opportunity to go back in the summer. It will mean a lot to me to be able to go back, to look at what's happening, and to contribute, because he came back with so many positive experiences, and I think we need that. As much as I owe a lot to Canada, I also owe a lot to my country of origin, despite the fact that I have not been back since the genocide happened.
Absolutely, it is important for young people to go back. There are not as many young people going back as there should be, but I think it's important to create.... The world is becoming a global village, and the more we share, the more opportunities there are for improvement.
My having been exposed to Canada completely changed my perspective abut things like diversity, like ethnicity. Right now, I would say that I am a global citizen, because it means.... I've been in Montreal for the last six years. Of course, I will not pretend and say that it's a perfect place to live, but it's much better than most of the places I've been to, and we need to share the same experience back....
I have had an opportunity to go back to Kenya. Whenever I go back, I speak about Canada. I like to share the great experiences. Hopefully these can be shared as human beings, because humanity is contagious. I think we are able to learn from one another. In the same way that Canadians can learn from Rwandans, Rwandans and Kenyans and other people can learn both ways.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
You said that you hope to visit Rwanda soon; you just alluded to that. Are you free to return to Rwanda without fear of harm?
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
That's a good question. The harm that was present for me is no longer there. I have done my groundwork and it's now in existence, and I'm happy to say that I will be honoured to go back.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Okay.
You spoke about Canada maybe helping out with more post-secondary education. It has been stated numerous times by different witnesses that we are very short of psychologists and psychiatrists. There might be only six in a large community. If Canada were to embark on something like specializing in trying to train some psychiatrists and psychologists who would go back to work in Rwanda, would that make a difference? I'm told that many Rwandans need this help.
Do you know how many people may go out of the country to train as psychologists or psychiatrists—or even in the country—at this particular time when the need is so great for the people on the ground, the residents of Rwanda today? Do you not feel that it would be a great vision to have, to move in that direction to help many people?
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely. That would be a great way to contribute directly. It could be a program to bring Rwandan physicians to Canada to study psychiatry, or bring graduates from high school and college programs to Canada to study psychiatry and become doctors, and then they'd go back to Rwanda.
In terms of going back, I think it's a case-by-case issue. When people end up in a place, they can become connected to it and end up staying there. It becomes a personal choice or decision to go back. I've seen the so-called brain drain, where you bring in a group of young people from a developing country and then, when they finish their degrees, they stay here. Maybe we could do some research to see if we could incentivize young people to go back.
I do think it would be an absolutely amazing program. It could also be the same with having Canadian.... Well, unfortunately we probably do not have enough funding to bring in Canadian psychiatrists to share some experiences with existing psychiatrists or those in training.
Conservative
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
In Rwanda currently? I'm not sure of the number. It has maybe improved, although not in a very viral manner. I'm not sure if the quality has gone up or gone down. I have not done that type of research. I think there are more universities than there were in 1994, but I'm not sure about the quality.
I'm more familiar with the situation in Canada, but maybe that's an interesting place for me to—
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
I agree with you on the people who come here. My forefathers, some from Germany, some from Scotland, came here way back, 150 years or so ago. We're transplanted Canadians much the same as you are; it's just that I'm six generations from that. So I understand; our people didn't want to go back.
My thinking is that maybe we can send teachers to some of these universities and make sure that those courses for psychiatrists and psychologists can be implemented right in the country. Then those people could help the Rwandans the way they need it.
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Absolutely. I do agree.
Thank you very much.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
You mentioned in your presentation that there's still a reluctance within the community for those who are the survivors, either the victims or the children born of these atrocities, to speak openly. I guess this is the crux of what we're looking at, namely, not only how to help those individuals but also how to learn from that experience so that we can develop methodologies and training for our response to situations in other countries that are happening now.
I'm not sure how large the community is in Canada, but what kind of initiatives are happening within the community to help these individuals to let go, to feel free, to begin to discuss, and to begin to take that load off their shoulders, as you mentioned? What kind of activities or initiatives are happening within the community in Canada, and are any of them being transplanted or worked in Rwanda?
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Thank you for that question.
I've seen initiatives such as the one I mentioned before with Page Rwanda, our academic fund, and also sort of like a community providing a safe space to express oneself. They also did a project with Concordia to record stories and encourage other people to share their own stories.
Additionally, I've seen interesting potential avenues for the future within the youth. In the last three years, there has been the creation of the Canadian Association of Rwandan Youth in Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, and Toronto. We recently had a gala, where cultural expressions were showcased through music, poetry, spoken word, and other interesting avenues. I think that could be an interesting place to tap into sharing experiences.
I haven't seen that happening in the last three years. It has happened more on the academic front, but not as a communal, youth-led initiative. Maybe we could think about that.
As I mentioned, the most challenging issue has been, and continues to be, access to funding. You can have so much in terms of ideas and so many opportunities, but if you do not have the ability to run your programs in an economic sense, then it becomes a bit difficult. I think there is an opportunity to tap into the creation of these associations in different cities in Canada and to encourage other cities to do that.
Basically, the forecast right now is networking for young people, looking at opportunities for different types of scholarships, and sensitizing our young people to look into that. It's also entrepreneurship. I have seen young people who are interested in beginning small businesses, but again, funding is an issue. This is maybe where the committee could come in and encourage these young people, who not only are looking for jobs, but sometimes they have problems finding a job when they finish some of the programs. At the end of the day, university degrees are very valuable, but I've seen some young people who are interested in beginning entrepreneurship ventures.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
I know your focus is education, and that's an extremely important aspect, but I want to quickly get your thoughts from a community perspective.
For those communities who are able to get to Canada but carry the weight of what has happened to them or their families or their country, what would you say are the things that we should look for? What are the things that we should be taking initiatives on in order to help those individuals both heal and transition into a new life here in Canada?
Candidate, McGill University Faculty of Law, As an Individual
First of all, I think, is to recognize the fact that these individuals who are coming in have a lot of heavy baggage. In addition they're coming to a new country and are being faced with the potential socio-economic challenges of moving to a new country. Of course, it goes without saying that the Canadian weather is obvious, but that's an aside.
I think that an institutionalized centre for Rwandans in Canada could be established. It would be an interesting place, where people could feel safe. They would have a place to come together and have support. We could have a psychiatrist on the ground. We could have community members who've gone through different experiences, and young professionals and other people who are interested. We could have a program, sessions, and community events for them to come to in a safe place to encourage young people and other people who are coming in to offload that heavy baggage.
I think that the more they offload, the better the chance they have to focus on other things. Mental health problems could impede success in regular life. I think combining all of that would be an interesting way to put together an institution dedicated to Rwandans. In Montreal alone, I think we are speaking of over 5,000 Rwandans on the island. I know there are more if you put it in terms of Ottawa and other cities such as Toronto and Edmonton and across Canada. I think it would be interesting to put up an institution.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you.
That completes our questioning. We've gone a little over the time, but with the indulgence of the subcommittee, we do have an item of business for which we have to go in camera. Let me now thank our witness.
Thank you very much, Mr. Gashirabake. We'll dismiss you with our thanks.
I'll suspend for a moment while we go in camera, which means that unfortunately, everybody who's not a part of the committee has to leave the room. Thank you very much.
[Proceedings continue in camera]