Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[David Matas]

Maybe I could give a legal distinction.

Anti-Semitism is a set of human rights violations, a wide variety of forms of discrimination against the Jewish community. Anti-Zionism is the rejection of one particular Jewish right, the right to self-determination of peoples.

There is a difference between anti-Zionism and being anti-Israel. Let's say you hate the way the roads are paved in Israel, and so you're critical of Israel, that's not being anti-Zionist. Anti-Zionism goes to the existence of the state of Israel rather than to its behaviour.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Sure.

The official policy of the Iranian regime is not anti-Semitic but is anti-Zionist. Is that correct?

[David Matas]

I would say anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Semitism. It's a very particular one.

I would say—but of course what Michael says is true—once you're Jewish you're suspected of being Zionist and so the anti-Zionists impose a wide range of violations on Jews as suspected anti-Zionists, perceived anti-Zionists complicit in the crimes of Zionism, whether that's real or not.

[Michael Mostyn]

As well, the actions of the actual state of Iran, when, through its terrorist proxies it targets Jews abroad for murder, are also actions against the Zionist entity. These are innocents. Whether it's Jews or non-Jews who get murdered, that is the rhetoric of this regime being put into action.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Thank you, Mr. Hillyer.

In order to extend further, we're going to need permission of the committee. Mr. Benskin has a right to another question since I'm in the chair.

You pass? Okay.

That would conclude—yes?

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Just on a point that Mr. Hillyer was trying to make. If I could just have 60 seconds, that would be great.

Our question went a bit awry.

What I wanted to get on the record, gentlemen, was just that you don't have to...there's a very narrow cast that you have to live within as far as the lifestyle in Iran goes in order to stay out of jail.

Simply for being a Baha'i person and loving people and telling people that you're Baha'i, you can be incarcerated in Iran. Simply for being a Jew, you can be incarcerated in Iran. Simply by putting one entry in a blog that is slightly askew of what this regime believes.... The point I'm trying to make is that we always refer to them as political prisoners, but these folks who are jailed and tortured in Iran are often guilty of so little. Pastor Abedini for example, for whom I've been advocating for years, was simply a pastor at home churches, and he has been incarcerated since 2012.

That was the point that they were trying to make, and I just wondered if you agreed with that?

[David Matas]

Yes, sure. To a certain extent it relates to a previous comment that was made: when we're dealing with political prisoners, they're not political in our sense; they're just seen as political by the regime.

By way of a concluding comment, I just want to say that I am pleased that the committee has given us this opportunity and that Iran has been put on the agenda, but I would encourage the committee to do a report as well on the issue. A number of factual, legal policy issues arise when you're dealing with Iran, and I believe we would all benefit from the wisdom of the committee on this.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

Thank you.

We're at the point of adjournment, and I want to thank you gentlemen for being here.

I notice that Mr. Mostyn's name is very close to “Marston” when you pronounce it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Wayne Marston]

I'll have to start checking my own history very quickly now.

At any rate, thank you very much for your testimony.

I saw out of the corner of my eye that our analyst noted your request at the end of the meeting, so I'm sure we'll be discussing it.

We stand adjourned.