Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'm going to allot my time to Mr. Sweet since I'm just a replacement on this committee. I think Mr. Sweet has more pertinent questions he'd like to ask.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right. Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up with other questions in regard to what's happening right now on the ground with women who are victimized.

Do women who now are being raped have access to some counselling or to medical care of any kind? How are they seeking help after they're victimized?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

Because of the lack of funding, we are unable to support the women, unfortunately. We always take information from them, but we also have a plan to work with women survivors to build a survivor movement and also to provide shelters and counselling for these women.

In the conflict areas it is difficult to keep track of the survivors. After they have been raped, they secretly move to other areas. Sometimes the village has been burned down and they move to other areas, so it has been difficult, but as long as we can do it, there are safe houses in some areas. We set up safe houses with support from Inter Pares through the Burma Relief Centre. We also try to raise awareness and hold discussions within the ethnic community about violence against women and also on the international violence against women day.

We also support those who are in need of emergency assistance. For example, if they need to refer the case to the courts, they might need some funding for that. We don't have enough funding, but we can contribute a bit. If they need medical assistance, for instance, or if they need to be referred to the hospital due to their injuries, we can contribute a bit, but it's not fully supported because we don't have full funding for that.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

What about the subsequent births that would come from these rapes? What about the care for those children? Has there been abandonment in some cases? Has there been a need for people reaching out for adoption and those kinds of things, or even just for services for the women who, in a very tough situation, have to raise these children?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

Unfortunately, we don't have any support for them.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Okay.

Here is my final question. I understand that the Baptist convention has quite a significant presence in Burma. I think Inter Pares has testified alongside them here at this committee, if I remember correctly. We've had so many witnesses in regard to this.

Are there some good channels of working together with all these humanitarian groups, church groups, NGOs, to make sure the aid is leveraged to the best ability and to help the most people we can?

[Jessica Nhkum]

The most effective way will be by giving the funds to the local community-based organizations working on the ground, because now there are some shelters in the big cities, but the crimes are happening in the rural areas. The people from the cities don't want to go to the rural areas because of the insecurity, and they don't speak the language, and the local people also don't understand their language. Understanding is a barrier.

I would like to share a little bit about the cases that we are facing. I would like to tell you about two cases.

One recent case was last April, a rape by the Burma army, who were coming in for offensive in Kachin State. A 17-year-old Kachin girl was raped, and she wanted to get justice and go to the courts. One of our local organizations helped. We went to the court and appealed, but they said there was no evidence. When she was raped, she didn't have a medical checkup by a doctor so she had no proof. How could she get a checkup in the very mountainous area where she was raped, where there is not even a clinic? The courts in Burma say that the application mechanism for rape cases is that as soon as you are raped, you need to go to the women and children's affairs of Myanmar. They operate in the city area, but people are raped in the rural areas. Only the organizations that are really working with civil society on the ground can help take care of this.

In another case in northern Shan State, in Kutkai, a girl was gang-raped. She really wanted to get justice and she went to the court. She claimed that she was raped by two soldiers, but they said, “Oh, where are they? You didn't catch them, so why would we help you? You are embarrassing us. We will sue you.” She was so embarrassed and said, “Why would I tell you that I was raped? In our culture, we are so embarrassed, and I am so shy about the rape. Why would I say that I was raped if I was not?” Now the courts, the soldiers, the police are saying, “No, you are accusing us, so don't come again or we will sue you.”

Many cases, not only rape cases but other human rights violation cases, are happening like this. We cannot even think about going to the courts and the police, because it's hurting people twice, in many ways, so we are hiding in our communities and just sobbing like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you all for being here. Your testimony, and I echo the words of my colleagues, is definitely sobering.

In this committee we have been seized with the issue of rape used as a sexual weapon in various parts of the world. As my colleague pointed out, we are now in the process of going through a report on the Democratic Republic of Congo. We've been exploring this heinous activity throughout the world, and it saddens me that this is now heightened in Burma.

The work that you're doing is of great importance. For my own clarification with regard to your organizations, and I speak to Wahkushee and Jessica, are you on the ground in Burma, or are you basically expatriates working from outside of Burma?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

Our main office is based in Chiang Mai, but all the activities and member organizations are in different ethnic areas in the conflict areas.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I applaud your courage in the work you're doing, based on the testimony you gave.

At this point, what is allowing you to continue to do the work? It seems to me that there's a systematic closing down of options. You were saying that women are being shut out of the court system. They're saying, “You don't have evidence; go to a clinic”, knowing full well that there are no clinics.

What is enabling you to continue to do the work you're doing? How can we in Canada and the west help you to be more effective in doing the work?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

Yes. Actually, I came to the refugee camp in 1995. I went to school there.

I started working with the women's organization in 2001, and I can never leave that organization because I have seen people who have suffered. All my family have set out to other countries like Canada and Norway, but for me, if I leave the people, especially women and children, I feel guilty. This is why I can never leave this organization and I continue this work until now.

There is still hope. I have been working for more than 15 years, and if I don't have hope, then it seems that I have been wasting my time for the last 15 years. This is why I'm still hoping that there will be change in my country so that we can go back and live peacefully.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

For now, are the NGOs and the type of organizations you work for reasonably safe from military incursion?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

We are the first target.

There is no other organization that really touches on the military. We always monitor; we always touch on the military issues when it comes to the military. This is why we have a network inside Burma. It's also why we keep our office in Thailand or on the border, because of security. But we can go back and forth, and communication is better.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay. That's what I was wondering.

How can we better aid you in the work that you're doing?

[Wahkushee Tenner]

As we mentioned before, the funding has ended. We're worried that now most of the aid goes through the Burmese government inside Burma. The struggle in Burma is also ethnic rights.

This is why it's important that it go both ways, so that it's sustainable. Also, there should be an inclusive space for the democratic reforms. This is why it's important that the Canadian government continue its support to the ethnic areas and to the ethnic community organizations.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You would like to see this support go directly to the ethnic communities as opposed to going through the Burmese government.

[Wahkushee Tenner]

Yes, that's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Malseed wants to say something.

[Kevin Malseed]

I want to clarify that most of the work of these groups is in Burma. Often, when people refer to inside Burma, they mean central Burma, as opposed to the ethnic states, but a lot of groups will have offices both in the ethnic states of Burma and Thailand as a fallback position. They're actually working in the ethnic states.

In Burma you have a situation where the government control does not actually cover the entire country. There are large parts of the country with mixed administration, where you have ethnic governments that exert as much or more control than the government. You can operate effectively in those areas without any government approval, but of course, if the government military comes into the area, you then become a target.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you to all of our witnesses to today.

We much appreciate your coming by and providing us with testimony. You've given us a lot of insight. Some of it is very timely indeed, given the fact that this evening we will be dealing with a concurrence debate, where the House will debate and then decide whether to concur in a report of this subcommittee dealing with rape as a weapon of war.

The testimony you've given us today provides, unfortunately, discouraging evidence that this remains an ongoing problem.

The meeting is adjourned.