Evidence of meeting #62 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bangladesh.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anuradha Bose  Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

That remains a part of our committee record.

1:35 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Ms. Grewal, please, you have five minutes.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Bose, for taking time out of your busy schedule to come and share your thoughts with us today.

I understand that in Bangladesh there have been over 100 deaths since January and the police there have arrested thousands of activists and banned the opposition groups from holding demonstrations. Is there a danger that this heavy crackdown on anti-government protestors in Bangladesh will create an opening for militant extremism to take root in the country?

1:35 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

I don't know that it would open.... I think there is a lot of homegrown militancy there already. If they are not on the streets, they are definitely on social media. I am astounded by how tech-savvy they are and how well they use social media—not just the progressives, if you want to call them that, but all the political parties—to get people out onto the streets. It's difficult to say. You know, there are very nasty elements on both sides, including in the government.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Could you comment on the recent disappearance of opposition leader Salahuddin Ahmed and what this means for democracy in Bangladesh?

1:35 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

It would be the same thing anywhere in the world. Mr. Salahuddin was exercising his right to dissent, and dissent is healthy for democracy.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Local and international rights groups say that they see a pattern of deaths among people being held by police or during what security forces describe as “encounters”. They claim all terrorists are criminals, so these deaths, they say, amount to a form of illegal execution. Could you comment on these claims?

1:35 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

I can't comment on these claims per se, but I think that this is, again, endemic to the subcontinent's countries. Extrajudicial killings, what they call “staged encounters”, are used all the time in India too. You don't know who or what; you have to take the security force's word for it. At the council, we absolutely abhor and condemn violence.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Last month, Avijit Roy, a Bangladeshi American blogger known for condemning religious extremism, was hacked to death on a street in Dhaka by two assailants wielding machetes, and Islamist extremists are suspected in the attack. Does Mr. Roy's death signify a changing Bangladeshi society, one that is moving away from secularism?

1:40 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

I would hope not but the space for secular thinkers is shrinking. Also, Mr. Roy has a lot of defenders. He came from a very prominent family with a Hindu last name, and the Americans have taken him to heart and come to, at least, his wife's aid. What is significant there is that, when he was being hacked to death, the police were hanging around. They did nothing. That is what makes us fearful.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Well, if all avenues of political discourse are closed, could Islamist parties that are part of electoral politics renounce the political system? What would this mean for religious minorities?

1:40 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

The religious minorities do not feel safe anymore. It was one of our Muslim supporters who said that minorities are about to become an endangered species in this country. The minorities feel safe nowhere, not even within the four walls of the legislature.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

All right, thanks, Mr. Chair.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

You are exactly five minutes and two seconds. Very precisely done, if I may say.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, please.

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Thank you very much.

This has been a fascinating discussion. I'm not a regular member of this committee; I'm replacing Mr. Cotler. I'm very pleased to do so and I've learned a lot in a very short period of time, but I'm not as familiar with the issue as he would be or the other members of the committee would be.

What I'm curious about is the constitution that you spoke about, attempts having been made to amend the constitution. Those amendments, as I understand it, were struck down by the courts, so there is a solid secular constitution, I assume.

1:40 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

It's difficult to say that it's a secular constitution. It says it's secular but it does have the Muslim invocation, which is religious. I don't think that it is a secular constitution as such, but the more egregious things have been removed. But removing from the constitution and the government's wholehearted support of a secular society are two different things. It is very difficult for any party that is in power in Bangladesh to be totally secular. The political culture of the place has changed.

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

That would include the courts, I guess.

1:40 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

Well, the courts are still extremely well functioning, and I would say very much above board. In fact, I think Mr. Sinha Roy mentioned that it has a Hindu for chief justice now. Now that's a very forward-looking gesture. It has never happened before.

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

So the courts are fairly neutral, or as neutral as they can be within the constitution that the country has.

In your opinion, if the constitution—I grant you it's not entirely secular, but it appears to have some kind of neutrality, if not total—were properly implemented, and assuming that on the other side of the equation, there wasn't the political and violent chaos that probably makes it very hard for things to get to courts in the first place, but if you didn't have that, could the constitution be properly implemented to create a stable functioning society where religious minorities would be protected?

1:45 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

We would like to think so but we don't have much confidence in it as long as these two warring ladies are at the helms of their respective parties. Because this is not a political battle. This is a battle of two men who have died and of these women carrying on their legacy. One is hiding behind the corpse of a father and another behind the corpse of a husband. It's reduced to the personal, which is why it is as bitter as it is. So no constitution can—

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

At this point, no....

1:45 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

At this point, or at any point....

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Oh, at any point? So even if violence subsided—

1:45 p.m.

Adviser on Parliamentary and Governmental Affairs, Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council

Dr. Anuradha Bose

Yes, because this is an enmity that is almost like a vendetta.