Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 28th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Order.

Colleagues, this is the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. Today is April 28, 2015, and this is our 66th meeting.

We are televised, colleagues.

Colleagues, just to alert you, our witnesses today will be making their presentation in Spanish, as they don't speak either of the two official languages of Canada. That doesn't affect how you'll hear them. You will get a translation in the language of your preference. They, however, are using earpieces that have been brought in for this occasion and allow them to hear everything in Spanish.

Just to alert anybody who's here, if you want to hear this in Spanish—I realize this isn't helpful if you don't already understand English, which I'm speaking now—there are extra earpieces.

Let me introduce our witnesses now, please. There are three individuals today. Appearing as an individual on his own behalf is Jorge Clemente Balbuena, who is a student leader with the Ayotzinapa teachers' school student committee; Hilda Legideno Vargas, who is the parent of a missing student and also comes from the Ayotzinapa teachers' school; and finally, on behalf of the Tlachinollan Human Rights Center, Isidoro Vicario Aguilar is also appearing.

Witnesses, welcome to our subcommittee. We're very glad to have you here. I'll tell you a little bit about how these things work. We invite you to give your opening statements. When you have completed them, we'll then go to questions from each of the members. There are six members of the committee who will ask you questions. The amount of time we have left once your finish your statements will determine how much time is available for those questions and answers.

We normally encourage presenters or witnesses to keep their testimony as brief as they can, not because what you have to say is not important—quite the contrary—but because the questions that your testimony has caused our members of Parliament to want ask are often the keys to finding out the best ways that we in Canada can assist in dealing with the problems to which you are drawing our attention.

That said, I'm not sure how you intended to divide the time between yourselves. Do you have someone who would like to speak first?

Please feel free to begin.

[Hilda Legideno Vargas, Parent of a missing student, Ayotzinapa Teachers' School, As an Individual]

Good afternoon.

My name is Hilda Vargas, the mother of Jorge Antonio Tizapa Legideno, a missing student.

We have been looking for our children. We have travelled all over Iguala and towns that are close by.

It's been more than seven months, and as parents, we're desperate because we want to find our children. As parents we do not accept what the government has said, because the government has lied since the very beginning. At the outset they said that our children were in graves, and then they said that they were thrown into the San Juan River, and now they say that our children were burned.

We do not believe that version, because since the beginning they have lied to us. The government continues to do so.

As parents, we request that there be solidarity with us, and that you ask the Mexican government to carry out a real search for our children.

Unfortunately, the government has only attacked us with respect to the search for our children. They have struck students; they have beaten them.

As parents, we do not accept the version of the government because really, as I've said, they have lied to us. Their historical version is based on people who supposedly were aware of the facts, but there is no scientific support to indicate that this is what took place.

Argentine experts have indicated that our children are not in the graves. Currently, scientists from UNAM have indicated that it's impossible that this has occurred, because in order to burn so many bodies you would need much more material.

For the past seven months we have been looking for our living children because we think that they are still living. We do not believe the government's version. Unfortunately, the government is attacking us now, and as parents we're desperate. We want to see how you can make a decision and communicate with the Mexican government so that our case can be dealt with.

We live in Guerrero, and we know how the government works. In Guerrero we are ruled by organized crime. The Mexican government is connected to organized crime, so we think that it was the government....

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar, Lawyer, Guerrero State, Tlachinollan Human Rights Center]

I'd just like to add to the information that has been given by Ms. Hilda.

Hilda is the mother of one of the 43 students who disappeared. It's an unfortunate fact that occurred in the state of Guerrero, Mexico, on September 26 and 27, 2014. In other words, this is not an isolated case. It's a systematic violation of human rights that has been faced by the Mexican state.

Lastly, we would like to ask this honourable Parliament for the following. We ask, at the outset, that this honourable Parliament and the country of Canada remove Mexico from the list of safe countries as a result of what was pointed out by Hilda. There are no safety or security conditions.

We also ask that this honourable Parliament make a decision in the face of Ayotzinapa and then urge the Mexican state to have transparency in this case involving investigations of Ayotzinapa.

Third, we would also like to request of this honourable Parliament that it urge the Mexican state to guarantee the work of experts who come from the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the group of Argentine anthropologists who are forensic experts, who are assisting us with this case in Ayotzinapa.

Fourth, we also ask this honourable Parliament to urge the Mexican state to offer guarantees of security and safety for the parents of the 43 students, who today insist that their children are still alive, the students of the normal school, their representatives, and other organizations that accompany this movement carried out by parents.

This last point is extremely important for the parents and for their representatives. We have seen that on recent dates in this battle and in this search for justice and the presentation of living students that the government has repressed the parents, has repressed organizations. We have a clear example just recently to that effect. In the hands of federal police, they killed a professor by beating him when the students were asking for a dialogue with federal officials. Mexican authorities are far from clarifying the fact of who should locate the whereabouts of the 43 students. Unfortunately, unfortunate events are still occurring in the Mexican state.

With this, we can answer any questions or any concerns that the parliamentarians may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Colleagues, we have enough time here to do seven-minute rounds of questions and answers.

Just to confirm, by the way, I think we'll use the normal procedure where anybody who may have to leave early.... Can you talk among yourselves to ensure that those who can stay longer can ask the final questions?

We'll begin with Ms. Grewal, please.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today and taking time out of your busy schedules to share your testimony with our committee.

According to Human Rights Watch, problems of enforced disappearances, extrajudicial executions, and of course, torture are widespread in Mexico. Mexico's new Attorney General Gomez Gonzalez, upon taking office in March, pledged to investigate violations including disappearances and torture and to make it a priority to work with the national and international human rights monitors.

Do you believe that Ms. Gonzalez can ensure that the human rights abuses are effectively investigated and punished?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

This is what the Mexicans state and what the people of Mexico are demanding, for the authorities who are responsible for the investigation into these unfortunate events be able to carry out efficient work. Unfortunately, so far we have not had any results.

The previous attorney general has attempted to try many different ways to close the investigation into the case of Ayotzinapa, bearing in mind that the only hypothesis that was being handled by Mexican authorities was that the 43 students' lives were taken and that they were burned in a dump in Iguala.

However, of the edicts or information that have been provided in an official manner, these investigations carried out there by the Argentine anthropologist experts have showed the contrary. With the arrival of the attorney general, we are requesting as representatives and as parents that efficient work be carried out in order for us to be able to find the whereabouts of the 43 students.

We lament that at this stage of the game—the day before yesterday it has been seven months—still there are no indications as to the whereabouts of these students.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I understand that widespread impunity and corruption is a very serious problem, particularly at the state and local levels, in the security forces, and in the judicial sector.

In your opinion, what can the national government do to address these abuses?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

In Mexico there is a great crisis of violations of human rights perpetrated by officials or authorities without appropriate investigations being carried out, without having detained the persons responsible for this, without any process being involved, without any sanctions, and without any punishment for those who are responsible. This has allowed public servants and officials of the government to be able to continue to foster these violations. It's systematic violation.

We were talking about the case of Ayotzinapa, but it's not the only case. In Mexico, unfortunately, official figures would indicate there are more 26,000 persons who have disappeared over a period of seven years. In other words, from 2007 to 2014 these are the figures. This is an alarming figure. In fact there is torture.

There are extrajudicial debates and discussions, and we still have not found out that these people have been sanctioned by the Mexican state.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

To what degree can the problems in Mexico be attributed to transnational and local criminal organizations?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

In fact, the case of Ayotzinapa could serve as an example of all the other cases. The day of the events, September 26 or September 27, there was the participation of municipal police, but also the direct participation of organized crime. This would indicate that there is significant collusion of public servants with organized crime. Unfortunately, in the case of Ayotzinapa, not only is there the responsibility of public servants at the local level, but there is also participation, in direct and indirect fashion, of public servants of the state of Guerrero.

There is also direct and indirect responsibility of public servants from the government of Mexico. People who are outside of the country have attempted to minimize the case of Ayotzinapa, yet the reality that has been experienced today by the Mexican state is extremely complicated, because these crimes do not involve any processes in the manner in which they should in cases where there is involvement of public servants at the local level, the state level, and the federal level. Some of the crimes have been focused upon in terms of homicide, but the correct modality that should be applied to a process of this type, when there is involvement of authorities or public servants, should be the modality of extrajudicial executions.

This is why we lament the fact that today, more than seven months after these events occurred, the Mexican state has not made every effort so that those who are responsible are punished, so that we locate the 43 students from the normal school, and so that they pay adequate attention to the injured students. More than seven months afterwards, there is a student in a grave situation, a student who is in a coma because he was injured with a firearm at the hands of the municipal police.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Mr. Marston, go ahead, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. Vargas, I want to offer you our sincere condolences for the situation that you find yourself in with your son. From speaking to members of your delegation prior to this committee convening, I know how important the MPs' seeing the picture of your son is to you. We have a gentleman here who will pass the picture, with your permission, to the MPs so they can see it first-hand.

Is your translation not working? We'll try again.

I don't know whether you heard me before, but I want to offer our sincere condolences for the situation you find yourself in with your son.

Mrs. Vargas, from listening to your testimony, it is clear that you don't believe the Mexican government's story. Why would that be?

[Hilda Legideno Vargas]

It's because, as I said at the outset, after the events that occurred on September 26, the Mexican government put out a press release indicating that the students were in graves. Then there was another press release that came out, which said they were thrown into the San Juan River. Now, as it turns out, they were burned. If they have lied once, and then again, how can we believe a government like that?

Unfortunately, the Mexican government has used the police. There are many people who have disappeared. There are an awful lot dead. In the newspaper we see the number of people who have died in Guerrero, and this is why we don't believe in the Mexican government. We do not believe that version and we are looking for our living children.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Of course.

I'll move on now to Mr. Vicario Aguilar. I hope my pronunciation of your name was relatively close.

Being a lawyer, and we've listened to your statement where you've indicated that 26,000 Mexicans have disappeared in Mexico since 2007, and today in the Ayotzinapa case, do you see that as unique, or is it some kind of measurement of what's happening, a broader human rights crisis than what people are even understanding at this point?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

Of course, what we were saying is that in the case of Ayotzinapa, it's not an isolated case. It's not the only case. What has occurred with the case of Ayotzinapa is that it exemplifies how in Mexico, when there is a forced disappearance, we cannot find out the truth because there is no work carried out by the authorities in an efficient manner.

In the case of Ayotzinapa, this is just an example. This is why we were saying that of the official figures, there are more than 26,000 persons who have disappeared. But unfortunately, prior to these events on the 26th we have not been able to go beyond the Mexican border. But thanks to the bravery of the parents of the children, who today are demanding the presentation of their living children, they have managed to demonstrate that in fact there is a serious crisis of violations of human rights in Mexico. In Guerrero, in Oaxaca, in Chiapas, where the populations are mostly indigenous, they face the same fate. Unfortunately, the family members of direct victims have not been able to bring to light the events of this nature.

To say that something bad is happening in Mexico and to have the bravery to make the complaint to the Mexican authorities in Guerrero, is synonymous with a risk that this might be the next victim, that it could be another family member that disappears.

That's why it's complicated. To make a complaint is to raise one's voice in the state of Guerrero where the situation is concerned. This is why we were saying that the case of Ayotzinapa is exemplary. It's an example of bravery, and it has also managed to raise the voices of the other families which, today, are dealing with this pain being faced by the parents.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

My fellow members of Parliament here today recognize the bravery exhibited by this group being here and speaking out internationally.

The thing that's striking about this is that the 43 students that disappeared.... It seems to me it was a targeted attack.

Do you have any idea why they might have been chosen as targets? Do you know of any other teaching colleges, or students, or academics, similarly targeted? Is there any evidence at all as to why?

[Jorge Luis Balbuena, Student Leader, Ayotzinapa Teachers' School Student Committee, As an Individual]

We are students. We are not any kind of terrorists. We're not criminals. We weren't carrying any firearms, and we wondered about it quite a few times. Why us? Why the students, particularly students that were to be teachers, that are committed to education?

We want to understand it. Were we selected, or was it a random selection? I don't know, but what did we do wrong to merit such a butchery that was cast upon us, that they would take the face off a student and everything?

To date, we still do not understand why. Why the Government of Mexico...? Forty-three disappeared and 16 people were assassinated then. In our defence, we are all students with very scant resources, so we live in that area and the Government of Mexico has not provided an answer yet.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Chairman.

I would echo my colleague's deepest sympathies to you on what you've experienced. We can't fully understand the depth of your sorrow. We express our deepest condolences for your losses and the sincere hope that, in spite of your lack of hope, there will be a good resolution in regard to the investigation.

We received a letter from the ambassador, and I want to ask you some direct questions about it. I'd like your response. In his letter, he says the following, “To date, federal authorities have arrested more than 100 individuals, including the mayor of Iguala and his wife, the presumed intellectual authors of the crimes, as well as local police and ethers confessing to crimes such as homicide and kidnapping.” Is that a true statement?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

What we are saying is that we regret the efforts on the accomplishment of justice in this state in Mexico. There is a relationship between the number of people who have been detained and arrested, but we regret that despite all the alleged arrests involved with organized crime, it has nothing to do with where the students are to be found. This is why we regret that the Mexican authorities do not have the civic value to do things right.

I say this for the following reasons. The mayor of Iguala, who is the local authority, is before the courts not for the Ayotzinapa matter but rather for the homicide a couple of years ago of a social worker called Arturo Cardona, a public civil servant in Iguala. José Luis Abarca is also accused of money laundering, but there is not a court case on the deaths of the students on September 26 and 27 of last year. There is not a single case the mayor is facing for the forced elimination of 43 students. That is why we regret that in Mexico they cover up that type of information.

We call upon your honourable Parliament to call upon, to whatever extent possible, the Mexican authorities to undertake the Ayotzinapa case with transparency. It is an exemplary case that is of the utmost importance to the state of Guerrero. It represents true pain for the parents, for the mothers and fathers of those students—not merely those who were executed at the hands of civil servants but those who have disappeared as well.

Thank you.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Just to be clear, to date the mayor and his wife are incarcerated, but not on any charges from the incident in question?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

Precisely.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

The next statement is as follows, “The lawyers of the victims' families have had direct access to the 85 volumes and 13 addendums of the investigation file.” Is that a true statement?

[Isidoro Vicario Aguilar]

Unfortunately, as the representatives who are with the fathers and mothers, it has been very difficult for us to have access to this. It is very difficult to even request an official meeting with the President of Mexico to access all this information.

In supposed goodwill by the President of Mexico, an agreement was signed so that the representatives could have access to that information and thus assist and provide additional information about the possible location of those students, but unfortunately in reality this has been extremely difficult. A good portion of information in the attorney general's hands has not been allowed to be accessed by others. It has also been very difficult since the arrival of the interdisciplinary independent experts who come from the IACHR of the OAS to have access to all that documentation on the investigation.