Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 18th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Mr. Kowsar, at the beginning of your remarks, you talked a little about the Holocaust denial cartoon contest. I'm not sure if you are aware.... I know that contest was launched again in the last number of weeks, on Monday, before Minister Dion said the following: “I am appalled by the annual #Holocaust Cartoon Contest in Iran. This is anti-Semitism, not humour. The murder of over 6 million Jewish people is a historical fact. #Holocaust denial is #Antisemitism”.

I wasn't sure if you had seen those remarks.

In the case of Atena Farghadani, you also talked about a posting on her Facebook page that had come into play in the instigation of some of the repression against her. What has been the impact of social media on cartoonists, and in general against people in the media profession?

[Nikahang Kowsar]

I salute Minister Dion for those remarks.

On the matter of social media, Facebook, and later Instagram, and right now Telegram, have had a great impact on Iranian society. Because of press censorship, many post their artwork, pictures, cartoons, and illustrations on social media. The negative side is that when individuals do it using their real names, they become targets of the judiciary, intelligence forces, and even goons. That's the sad side of it.

We always advise individuals to use pseudonyms if they want to stay safe from the Ministry of Intelligence, though we have had stories that many people are working for the Iranian cyberarmy and for the Ministry of Intelligence to detect those fake names and fake accounts, and some people have been arrested.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

MP Hardcastle, it's your turn.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to maximize my time with our guests.

Mr. Raeesi, could you continue, please, with your explanation about some of the problems with family law with regard to human rights, before we start the questioning?

[Hossein Raeesi]

I will give a little bit, not much.

I believe women's rights are the main area in Iran we should focus on, because half of the population of Iran is women. Many, I believe, suffer hugely from the government, and from society sometimes, because the government banned everything: all social media, all books—there is censorship of books—as well as the support of women's rights and the support of a culture to educate women in the right way. Based on this, we should focus on women's rights.

In the new Iranian Family Protection Act, we have many areas of denial of women's rights and mothers' rights. We should point out some articles that have put all rights of custody in the hands of the man. That applies also to divorce rights.

Unfortunately, fathers are allowed to sell their daughters, even under the age of 13. It is a terrible law.

We have some more terrible articles in this new law, such as article 51. If an Iranian woman marries a non-Iranian man, their children are not allowed to be Iranian. Nowadays we have more than one million children in Iran without any identification. They are all living around Zahedan and Mashhad, near the border between Afghanistan and Iran, because most of them were from marriages between Afghan guys and Iranian ladies. Their children are not allowed to access the education system or the health care system. They are living with huge suffering.

I was involved in many of their cases. I even applied for some of them to have identification, and my motion was denied. When I was a lawyer in Iran, I applied for this for some of my clients, but no.

Twice the Iranian Parliament tried to change this law. Finally, the Supreme Leader of Iran and the Guardian Council of Iran, based on sharia law, denied this right. It is a violation of women's rights.

We have many other areas of violation in the Iranian civil code and the Iranian Family Protection Act.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Kowsar and Mr. Raeesi, both of you addressed us at the very beginning with your opening comments, establishing that you thought the Canadian-Iranian relationship is important somehow to the advancement of human rights and the civil movement. I am paraphrasing to save time.

Then we heard later, when you had some specific questions posed to you, that targeted sanctions might be best. We heard, especially from Mr. Kowsar, that in certain instances the government may need to be stopped by force.

I am not going to ask you to go into that, because of the time, but maybe you could just clarify what Canada's role is. When our government is assertive by force, do you meant taking a stand diplomatically? What is this informal friendship really going to achieve? How can we do this?

We are trying to look at moving forward. I could have broken this down into a hundred questions for you, but I want to get the essence of that from you both, if you could each take a minute. I don't know who wants to go first.

[Nikahang Kowsar]

Sure, I will respond first.

The fact of the matter is that if Canada is willing to do business with Iran without putting in any preconditions, that would justify what the Iranian regime has done in the past and will do in the future.

I'm not a politician, but I believe that Canada should say that if Iran stops this wrongdoing and shows some improvement in other areas, we would be happy to build a bridge between businesses in Iran and Canada. However, if we were to sell wheat, goods, biochemicals, scientific tools, or anything without preconditions and not demand any changes in attitude and behaviour from the Iranian regime, I think it's just supporting the Iranian regime's charm offensive.

[Hossein Raeesi]

I will add a little bit to Mr. Kowsar's response.

I believe Iranian civil society has its own voice, and the Iranian movement has never stopped. For example, the Iranian women's movement has never stopped. Iranian students at the university have never stopped, and the young generation in Iran is really important. Based on this, I believe the Iranian government has tried to play a false role as a member of the UN. The Canadian government can continue to oppose these wrong decisions of the Iranian government.

The Iranian government has announced that we have our own law. No, you have law, but sometimes you never practise it, and sometimes your law is against women, against minorities, against children. You have executions under the age of 18. You have many executions for non-serious crimes. It's your law, yes. It's your law, but your law is wrong. You have to follow the standard of the UN and your obligation based on the treaties.

I strongly believe we should support Iranian civil society to never stop because Iran can change only through Iranian civil society. Education is the best, and continuing to oppose the wrong role of the Iranian government is maybe the second point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much for that, Professor Raeesi.

Next we have MP Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you, gentlemen, for your presentations today. They were very informative.

As we know, human rights violations never occur in a vacuum. We're here sitting in Canada talking about human rights violations that have occurred halfway across the world in Iran. My question to both of you is this: to what extent do the human rights violations in Iran and the discrimination against religious minorities and ethnic minorities by the Iranian regime have an impact on people of Canada and across the world?

I'm speaking specifically in terms of exporting things like Islamophobia, contributing to the growing impacts of Islamophobia in the western world—and not just Islamophobia, but also anti-Semitism, as the chair pointed out as well. I would really like you to comment on that.

[Hossein Raeesi]

Go ahead, Mr. Kowsar.

[Nikahang Kowsar]

Thank you very much.

First of all, I would like to say that after what happened in late 2015, with millions of refugees moving from Turkey and Syria to Europe, we saw a wave of Islamophobia over there. What I want to point out is that in a few years, due to drought, especially in the marginal provinces of Iran, such as Sistan and Baluchestan, with a high rate of Sunni Muslims and a Sunni majority, or in Kurdistan or other parts such as Khuzestan, we will see that thousands and thousands will have to leave the country because it's not supporting them under the hard circumstances of the drought. Based on scientific studies, this will worsen in the next few years.

What I'm scared of is that many of the people will have to leave the country without even understanding the sensitivities of international security, and this will possibly give a platform to some anti-immigration groups that have used Islamophobia in the past.

On the other hand, because so many Iranians have been so unfortunate as to not be aware of international human rights conventions, they will have problems adapting themselves to their new environments. In regard to what we saw in some parts of Europe after the mass immigration of many Syrians in other places, I'm sorry to say that some negative things happen, unfortunately, and will possibly happen in the future. This is one of my main concerns: that the drought will cause a negative human rights situation in the future.

[Hossein Raeesi]

I would like add something. I believe that Islamophobia itself is important, but we should be aware of Islamic rule inside the Muslim countries.

For example, in Canada we are talking about the scarves and the niqab. In Iran, in Saudi Arabia, and in many other Muslim countries, women are under huge pressure to have the mandatory hijab. As long as Islamic law is going to be the law practised in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, and in many other countries, we have a huge human rights violation.

When we are talking about Islamophobia here in the west, I think we still have a misconception about what exactly happens inside the Muslim countries. The power is under the control of the regimes in the Muslim countries, and they use Islam and sharia law in the wrong way, to push people into jail, to cut off a hand, for lashings, for executions, and for many other human rights violations.

Here we are talking about the sharia system, sharia culture, and the hijab. Yes, we should talk about that, but we should be careful inside the Muslim countries to focus only on the women, because they are under huge pressure from Islam, from the hijab, only from the hijab, because the hijab is not just a sign or a symbol of Islam. No: the hijab is also the weapon of Islam again women inside the Muslim countries.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I want to quickly clarify.

You initially said that these regimes in these Muslim countries are using Islam as a weapon against people, against women. I just want to clarify that it's not the religion itself that you're referring to in terms of discriminating against women, but only the regime.

[Hossein Raeesi]

I believe a regime uses the traditional Islamic law to have this weapon. It is not itself a regime based on Muslim scholars, based on the traditional Islamic law.

For example, we have execution for blasphemy and apostasy. I was a lawyer for many people on apostasy in Iran only because they are banned from talking about Islam inside a Muslim country. Now we have people in Saudi Arabia and Iran—Persians, Iranians, even Iranian clergy—in prison because they spoke out about the new or modern Islamic law. The Iranian regime and the Saudi regime and many other countries use the sharia system, but sharia never can be practised these days. They use it. It's not exactly in the wrong way as a regime, but it is a Muslim regime country and some clergy support this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Professor Raeesi.

MP Anderson, it's 1:58. We have time for a short question. I want to give you that opportunity.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a couple of questions. I wish we had a little more time.

I'll just focus on one thing. Amnesty International and others have noticed that certain ethnic groups in the country face discrimination in employment, housing, access to political office, and the exercise of their rights. I am just wondering if there is a difference between discrimination against ethnic minorities as opposed to religious minorities, and if so, has that discrimination evolved separately?

[Nikahang Kowsar]

I would say we have had very few ministers from Kurdistan, for instance. Kurdistan is a very well-established part of the country. We have millions of Kurds in the country, but we have had very few people working in the administration from Kurdistan or from Sistan and Baluchestan. On the other hand, we have had very few Sunni officials as well, so it's a matter of ethnic and also religious discrimination. I don't remember having heard or read about a high-ranking Christian or Jewish official in the country.

[Hossein Raeesi]

I believe all of the minorities, ethnic minorities and religious minorities, suffer hugely under the regime, and if you look around Iran, near the border of Iran, most are Sunni Muslims. The population is between 15 million and 20 million Iranian Sunni Muslims. They don't have any newspaper, never. They have nothing—no newspaper, no magazine, no media, and even in Teheran they are not allowed to have their own mosque.

Also, imagine a woman from Kurdistan who is LGBT, a Sunni lesbian who converts to Baha'i in Iran, and who has a Ph.D. in medicine, for example. She is not allowed to have a job, absolutely. There is great pressure; if you're a non-Muslim, a non-Shia, and you are from an ethnic group, you have no access to equal rights as others do. I'm Shia Muslim. Mr. Kowsar and I are both from the same city. Our city is Farsi and is non-ethnic, but we are under pressure. Many Iranian people, and the Iranian regime, consider Farsis as a minority.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

I want to thank both our guests, Professor Raeesi and Mr. Kowsar, for joining us today. This was the second of two days of testimony on the fourth or fifth annual Iran Accountability Week of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. We also heard from Professor Akhavan and Dr. Shaheed, and I have to tell you that it was enlightening.

I thank both of you for taking the time to join us here today, and I thank the members of the subcommittee for engaging and asking such insightful questions of our guests.

The subcommittee will be preparing a joint statement, and, again, I very much look forward to being able to continue this work on Iran throughout the course of the subcommittee's work.

Thank you very much.

[Hossein Raeesi]

Thank you.

[Nikahang Kowsar]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

The meeting is adjourned.