Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 27th, 2016

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

In order for the Security Council to refer the situation to the ICC, there has to be agreement within the Security Council. That would be the first step in this case. Iraq and Syria are not parties to the Rome statute. They said they would have the possibility to refer the situation in their countries to the ICC, but they have chosen not to do so yet.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm not sure if this is in your purview or not, but can you describe what other nations such as Russia and the U.S. are doing toward ceasing the discrimination against minorities in that region?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Russia?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Yes, and the U.S.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Specifically on Russia, I would have to get back to you. I'm not aware of any specific efforts led by Russia on that specific issue.

With respect to the U.S., it's definitely one of the countries we're working with. I was referring to Minister Dion's participation at the UNGA side event and holding Daesh to account. The U.S. was present there. They're part of a network of countries that are actively looking at these options.

One thing I want to say on accountability is that Iraq has to be a part of it. I'm not talking about Syria, obviously, because it's a completely different business. The solution has to be Iraqi-led. We're working with all of these countries to hopefully come to an accountability mechanism that will work. As I said, so far the focus has been from the Iraqi government. They've really asked for assistance to collect evidence.

The risk is always that with such evidence, if you don't collect it rapidly, there's none to be found by the time you have a tribunal in place to consider the crimes. That's been the focus so far, but certainly there's a lot of work happening as well within the international community to have those discussions about accountability mechanisms.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Do I have any time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

You have an extra 30 seconds.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Then I'll just make a comment that oftentimes I don't think it's a specific religion that is targeted or that is the oppressor. I always think it's the vulnerable groups that always suffer, like women and children. I want to thank you for all of your efforts with this important file.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much. Next we're going to go to MP Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much for your presentation. It was very concise about the plight that we're facing today. I was very intrigued to hear you talk. I would like to hear more about our support or the role that we're playing in advancing the Iraqi government's response, specifically with their judicial system. Can you identify areas where there could be a more supportive role for Canada?

I'll ask you a couple of things, and then you can just talk until my time is up. I think that's one of the best uses of our time in this format.

The other question I wanted to ask was with regard to rolling out humanitarian aid and effort while there are ongoing military campaigns as well. What are some of the challenges with that?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Maybe I'll start with your last question, and then I'll move to the first one. On the challenges involved in rolling out our humanitarian assistance, yes, you're correct. Particularly in Syria, I think we're all seeing the problems with respect to access to the most vulnerable people and the people who need assistance. So it's definitely a challenge. This said, some of the assistance is also going to host communities and refugee camps outside of Syria. For Iraq, it's also challenging, although in a different way, because we don't have the same multiplicity of actors as we see in Syria. Efforts at the moment are very much focused on the Mosul campaign because of the number of IDPs expected in the context of that campaign. The latest number I've seen is over 10,000 IDPs, but we expect many more, so our partners are working very hard to provide those vulnerable people with basic services to meet their basic needs. One of the challenges we're facing is also access in a way, because some of the civilians are being used as human shields by Daesh, so that, of course, complicates the matter. Nonetheless some civilians have been able to escape and partners are doing their very best to meet their needs.

I think I have numbers for you. If you give me a moment, I can tell you exactly how much assistance has been provided. In Iraq, we've committed $150 million at the pledging conference that took place in Washington in July, and of that amount $63 million has been disbursed so far. In Syria so far, it's $65.35 million for 2016. The total amount of humanitarian assistance committed for the region is $840 million, and that's for Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. That's over three years. That gives you an idea of the proportions.

In terms of our work with the Iraqi government to help with their governance, and I think you specified the justice system, those are definitely areas that are being considered in the context of the three-year programming, an amount of which has been set aside specifically for development programming. I am not aware of any specific programming focused on the judicial system, but I believe it's an area that's being considered actively. I can get back to you on this after speaking to my development colleagues. I don't have the answer right away, but it's being considered, that I know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

You still have a little more time.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Then I have just one more related question. Any program that we would do for the judicial system would be under the CIJA, or do we have our own or separate initiatives that also impact how they roll out with their judicial system?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

It would not necessarily be under the CIJA. The work that the CIJA is doing, with our support, is very specific. It's basically collection of evidence. There are trained lawyers or legal experts who are putting together files, with the expectation that those will be used in future prosecutions. Nothing binds us to working exclusively with them on an eventual program that would focus on strengthening the judicial system of Iraq. There are other partners that could be considered.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

We'll move right along. In the second round of questions, for five minutes, we have MP Miller.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you both for your testimony.

We have just started a vast study that could be even more vast. Unfortunately, in a humanitarian situation, the right to life is the basic right at stake.

I would like to focus the discussion on the right to practice one’s religion and religious freedom. Groups like the Yezidis are more specifically affected by Daesh’s genocidal discourse.

To what extent will that discourse influence what is going to happen later, after Daesh is eliminated? Will the situation get worse because of religion and distinctions based on religious practices or because of the fact that people are simply united against Daesh?

I know that that question could take half an hour to answer. Perhaps you could answer concisely by focusing specifically on religious freedom.

[Giuliana Natale]

Thank you very much for your question.

I will start by mentioning that today, October 27, is International Religious Freedom Day. That is very symbolic and relevant for today's discussion.

Yes, actually we can expect consequences and that religious communities will be in danger.

I'm going to switch to English to be able to respond more succinctly.

With this in mind, the office of human rights, freedoms and inclusion is exploring opportunities to support partners who are on the ground and who are working on inclusive projects that will bring together faith communities, faith leaders, and other members, youth for example, to dialogue and work together to address some of the issues that faith communities will be facing on the ground.

These are existential questions for faith communities in this particular region, so Canada is looking to find opportunities to support programming and projects that will bring together these communities in an inclusive dialogue.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

I would like to add one thing.

One of the reasons we are mentioning this is that some reports note the fact that some members of Sunni communities specifically, either out of conviction or because they felt threatened, have sometimes been complicit in some of the abuses that Daesh has committed.

I talked about the situation getting worse. The risk is in putting all members of the same community in the same basket. The same goes for the Shiite militias. We know that Shiite militias have committed some abuses and that there are reports to that effect. The risk is in tarring them all with the same brush because of some specific incidents of abuse.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

Okay, we're back in action.

MP Genuis, back to you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm going to talk really fast, because I have a lot to say.

I wanted to start on the specific issue of the jizya. This might seem like a technical point, but I think it's really important. Sometimes people say that ISIS charges jizya to certain religious minorities. I think it's really important that we not say that, because jizya has a specific, historic, theological meaning within Islam. The jizya implies that the practice of religion is allowed for those religious minorities and that protection is provided in exchange for a fixed taxation. That is not what Daesh does. Daesh uses the historic claim of jizya to undertake extortion against religious minorities, but that extortion is not a fixed tax. It is ongoing extortion, and it does not include protection for the practice of religion. This is really just a way of getting resources as a prelude to subsequent extermination, so to me, it's important that we not unintentionally give Daesh a propaganda benefit.

I'm curious about your comments on that issue, if you have thoughts on it.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Thanks. I think it's a useful clarification.

One comment I will make is that these, I don't want to call them taxes now, but this extortion has been a very important source of revenue for Daesh, especially recently, because the coalition has bombed several of the oil fields they were using to have access to resources. So they've been relying a lot on those taxes. With the territorial loss they're suffering now, their resources are seriously curtailed.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. That's a great point.

They are using this to significant effect in terms of resources, but it's an interesting indication again of the efforts by Daesh to cloak itself in the legitimacy of historic Islamic traditions when they're very clearly violating a lot of those basic tenets.

I want to ask you about the treatment of religious minorities by Iranian-backed militias and the extent to which western forces are co-operating with Iranian-backed militias that are also involved in human rights abuses against minorities.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Yes, there have been reports of abuses by some of the militias that are active in Iraq. Most of them operate under the umbrella of popular mobilization forces, but there are also independent militias that operate separately from that group. Such reports came out namely in the context of the liberation of Anbar province, which is predominately Sunni. Of course, the international community, including Canada, has been monitoring very closely and has condemned such violations and has expressed very strong views about not repeating the same mistakes in the context of the Mosul campaign. I don't know if you've listened to recent statements by Prime Minister al-Abadi. He's been very clear that the protection of civilians will be extremely important in the context of the Mosul campaign.

Unfortunately, we're seeing lots of civilian casualties at the hands of Daesh, but if at least Iraqi security forces pay attention to this, I think that's certainly an important goal of ours. You're probably aware that there was a conference on Mosul stabilization and governance in Paris two weeks ago. That was an important element that was stressed by all of the participants, including the Iraqis.

Your other question was in regard to what extent we or the coalition collaborate or work with those militias, correct?