Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 15th, 2016

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you for that answer. In fact, the UN mentioned to us that they have different models for camps. In their ideal model, they would get property in a host country, and they would actually manage and look after the camp, but many countries insist on being involved in the management. That's where it becomes very complicated.

[David Romano]

Sure.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I wanted you to maybe expand on something, because you made your remarks very quickly. You said there's a remarkable lack of thinking regarding the future political situation after the purging of Daesh. That's profoundly concerning to me. I'm certain it must also be to you.

[David Romano]

I think they have thought about it. Actually, I should rephrase that a bit. They cannot agree on anything, so it's almost as if they haven't thought about it, because no plan has materialized with regard to how to really govern these areas as they're liberated from Daesh.

Even within the Sunni community, I heard former governor Atheel al-Nujaifi, who was governor of Nineveh, saying that it should form a region. The current governor of Nineveh didn't even attend the talk, is dead set against that kind of proposal, and is accused of being financed from Baghdad. Then you have others who say that they should do something else.

We haven't been able to arrive at anything even approaching sufficient consensus to move forward.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

You mentioned, regarding the camp, that you weren't informed about Jordan, but, can I ask you a question about Jordan? They've absorbed up to two million Syrian refugees. The number is tough for them to nail down, between 1.6 million and two million, because many are in camps, but many more have assimilated throughout the population.

Are you concerned about this conflict, as it continues on, destabilizing more areas in the region?

[David Romano]

Absolutely. The three areas that are most overwhelmed by refugees and IDPs are the Kurdistan region, Jordan, and Lebanon.

In Lebanon, probably the only thing that's prevented this from bringing Lebanon back into civil war is the fact that the Lebanese still have so many memories of the last civil war, and they're just too tired to go there.

In Jordan, there is a risk of destabilizing the monarchy, especially if there's no way forward and there's no adequate government set up in areas that are liberated from ISIS. The people won't go back; they don't see a way back, and they end up stuck in camps. They're playing a role similar to that of the Palestinians in south Lebanon in the 1970s. They were in the camps and they had no real future, and they ended up inserting themselves into Lebanese politics. It broke the system down.

So, yes, we do have risks.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

We've identified Turkmens, Christians, and Yazidis. I know there are small communities of Baha’is and Zoroastrians.

Are there other religious minorities that we should keep in mind, as well, as we continue our study?

[David Romano]

Yes. There's a group in Iraq that's alternately referred to as Ahl-e-Haqq or Kaka'i. I'm not sure if you've included them.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you very much.

[David Romano]

There's been a resurgence of Zoroastrianism. I have no idea how big that really is, but there is that.

Then, even within the Christian communities, of course, you have those who consider themselves Assyrian, and others who consider themselves Chaldean, and so forth. So there's that to consider.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Dr. Romano. We're coming to the end of our time.

I just want to follow up on a quick thing. It had been raised that a cause for concern was the treatment of Yazidi women who are coming back into villages and camps pregnant from forced rape by Daesh militants. That's something that's been raised as a cause for concern, the treatment that they were getting when integrated back in with other Yazidis.

Have you had any experience with that, or heard of that happening?

[David Romano]

Yes, I've looked at that issue. I was one of the examiners on a doctoral dissertation that was examining precisely that, and whether the humanitarian assistance being provided to the Yazidis in Iraqi Kurdistan was culturally appropriate to their specific circumstances and backgrounds. That research and field work were done just last year. It uncovered that at the beginning, those women were treated very badly, which was the standard modus operandi of the Yazidi community. It's a very insular community. It's xenophobic towards others. You're not allowed to convert into Yazidism or out of it, and then these women were non-entities after something like that happened.

However, there were so many who suffered this fate, that the community, just to survive, made a conscious effort to change its norms. Many of the Yazidi peers and elders came forward to say, “Look, this has to change. These are our daughters, the women of our community. We must take them back in.” They're working really hard to get over that.

The situation, I believe, is much improved, although I wouldn't necessarily suggest it's settled yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much, Dr. Romano. On behalf of all committee members, I want to thank you for taking the time to give your testimony before the subcommittee this afternoon, and obviously for calling in from Iraq. It was very valuable, and I know we all appreciated having you on the line today.

Thank you very much.

[David Romano]

My pleasure, and good luck with all your work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you.

At this point, we're going to move in camera for a short batch of committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]