Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

What kinds of initiatives are you as an organization, as a community also, doing at the grassroots level to make sure that the women who have suffered so much atrocity are integrated when they come back into the community? What kinds of initiatives have been taken?

[Mirza Ismail]

We are trying our best to help them with psychosocial help, as well as medications. I gave a list to you. We have been helping them with other organizations, financially and with psychosocial help.

If the Yazidis don't like these women in their community, why am I here today to plead and to urge you to bring those Yazidi girls to Canada, to live as humans with dignity? I know the KRG has been against Yazidis for a long time and are trying to wipe us out, because the KRG's plan failed to destroy Yazidis with ISIS. That is why the KRG is trying to tell you this.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. My last question for you is, what is a long-term solution to this problem? The Yazidis have suffered, as you said, for a very long time. What can be done to really save the culture and the community? What is a long-term solution?

[Mirza Ismail]

A long-term solution.... Lalish is the only Yazidi holy place in the world, and our history goes back for more than 6,000 years. We are the people from that land since the birth of humanity.

The long-term solution would be to find ways to work together. Now we work with some U.S. congressmen and women. For example, Jeff Fortenberry, Anna Eshoo, and some senators. They are working to establish an autonomous region for the Yazidis and Christians and to provide military training so that they can protect their people, their history, and their land. We have been urging Canada to join up with the U.S. to do that. Canada is one of the best countries in the world, which respects human rights, and Canada and the rest of the western world know that the Yazidis and Christians will not be able to survive under sharia law.

For example, the KRG says Islam is the state of the region. In southern Iraq the government, or the central Iraqi government, they say Islam is the head of the state. If Islam is the head of the state, you have to follow sharia law, and if you follow sharia law you have to kill Yazidis. The world should know that.

The long-term solution, as I said, is to create a safe zone for Yazidis and Christians in Sinjar and the Nineveh plains and provide them with military training so they can protect their ancient homeland and their people.

On August 3, if it wasn't the KRG's plan, the KRG would not have collected the Yazidis' and Christians' weapons. If the Yazidis and Christians had weapons they would fight ISIS. ISIS themselves declared that their greatest losses in Iraq and Syria were in the Sinjar region, where the Yazidis live with only very basic weapons, such as AK-47s, and limited ammunition.

If they had resources to defend themselves, they would do that. We wouldn't then come to this situation, and we hope that Canada could join with the U.S., U.K., and EU to create a safe zone for the Yazidi Christians in Iraq and Syria.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Mr. Ismail.

We are now going to move to MP Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ismail, thank you so much for your thought-provoking information.

I don't need to hear any more graphic detail to convince me. What I would like to hear from you is.... Because we're in shock, and we're supposed to be decision-makers and policy developers, so what kinds of practical steps can you recommend to us? You told us earlier that with some of the support that goes to government, there is corruption and there is skimming off the top. You told us about government officials and government people that are working against the Yazidis.

Instead of talking about the long term like my colleague asked you about, in the short term, is there an organization right now or a group you trust that we could make some headway with over there? I don't mean here in Canada.

Who do you work with, and what do you see as a promising partnership for us to foster some kind of relationship, so there can be real action?

[Mirza Ismail]

I would recommend that you work closely with the Yezidi Human Rights Organization on the ground and the Assyrian Aid Society. The Assyrian Aid Society has been very helpful. They collect donations from around the world, from churches, and they provide equally to Yazidis and Christians.

From the government side, I was there in 2015, and I was there in 2014, at the time of the attack. One time, at the beginning of the winter in one of the IDP camps in Zakho, more than seven trailers came with winter clothing. The people who made donations were there, and they tried to distribute. They probably distributed to 50 or 100 people and then as the donors left, they closed the trailer doors and said, “That's enough for you. We gave you more than enough.”

In late 2014 to 2015, I went to Iraq with the Hindu guru, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. He donated 110 tonnes of food and clothing. We were there to make sure that this donation reached the people who needed the donation and not the government.

I believe that if the international community worked together, they could work with the people directly because the people are suffering, and the government is taking advantage of it. We hope you could work with the people on the ground, with the Yazidis, the Christians, the Sabians, and all who are displaced in those camps to make sure that the aid reaches them.

I can show you hundreds of pictures of the sick people. They are screaming for money just to have an operation or they will face severe health problems.

We hope you can work with the people who have suffered instead of working with the government.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will turn my time I have left over to one of my honourable colleagues because I have to exit the meeting at this time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Ms. Hardcastle.

Mr. Tabbara.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Ismail, for your testimony.

Our heart goes out to the Yazidi people, and the atrocities that have been faced by not only the Yazidis but other minorities and other individuals in Iraq and Syria.

My first question to you is continuing on what Ms. Khalid had said. For the future, how do you solve this issue? You have been mentioning a lot the grouping of individuals in certain religions, but do you feel that a separation of church and state in a future Iraq or Syria would be part of a solution?

[Mirza Ismail]

The Yazidis, Christians, and Sabians in Iraq have tried many times to survive together with the Muslims, but unfortunately, when there is an attack, they point their guns on their neighbours—

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

That's exactly my question. Here in western states we have a separation of church and state where individuals from all the different religions have freedom to practise their own religion. I understand that, for certain individuals who claim they may be Muslim or under Islamic rule and even prior maybe under the Ottoman Empire, there have been people who have seen a lot of atrocities.

Would you see a separation of church and state as being better to grow the region there and to have stability so we don't see human rights atrocities?

[Mirza Ismail]

It would be greatly appreciated if Islam could accept a separation from the state and from politics. That would be great, but unfortunately, you don't see that anywhere in the Muslim world, especially in the Middle East.

I was in the city of Dohuk in December of 2014, and I heard a mullah on a loudspeaker saying that ISIS is doing the right thing in killing the infidels. I contacted one of the UN officials in Baghdad and said that this was what was happening. The Yazidis were sleeping in the streets in the middle of winter. I think you saw my picture under the bridges. If the mosque is telling this to its people, what are you going to do? They didn't do anything.

Of course, if they could separate the church from the state, that would be greatly appreciated. Probably we would be able to survive together.

Saddam was a dictator but under his regime the life of Yazidis, Assyrians, Christians, Sabians, and Baha'is was much better than today, which now they call a democratic Iraq. Under Saddam no religious people could give a fatwa or permission to kill Yazidis or Christians.

If the west thinks they are going to be able to do this in Iraq and Syria or in other places, like Egypt for example, where many different ethnic groups live, or in Iran with, for example, the Zoroastrians, Yazidis, and Assyrians, or in Turkey, that would be great, but I don't see that in the future because they have not been able to do that for the last 1,400 years. I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

For a short-term solution, Canada could be the leading force to save the Yazidis and Christians and then also work for the long-term solution.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

We mentioned solutions. I want to ensure that with what we bring together here in our committee, we see human rights established and we don't see any atrocities happening in these regions.

If I can correlate that a little to the former Yugoslavia, there was a separation. You mentioned an autonomous state in your testimony. In the former Yugoslavia there were a lot of states that have separated: Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, etc. Do you see an autonomous state as a solution, because within that region there is still distrust. I understand from your testimony that there is still distrust of so many different factions, and that the Yazidis are facing distrust toward others.

I'm still relating it to my first question. Is the solution an autonomous state or the separation of church and state?

[Mirza Ismail]

The fairest solution and the only solution would be an autonomous region within federal Iraq for the Yazidis and Chaldo-Assyrians.

Now it's called the disputed area. Both the central government and the KRG government are fighting for the indigenous land. Canada was one of the countries that held that the KRG had to be a safe autonomy in 1991, and the U.S. and Europe. This is the only solution. Canada could work with other allies like the U.S., the EU, the U.K., and the UN to establish an autonomous region within Iraq.

We are not asking for a separate state. Iraq has been a federal country since 2003, and it's in article 125 of the Iraqi constitution that if the majority in the region wants an autonomous region, they should be granted it. The Yazidis and Chaldo-Assyrian Christians have been fighting for an autonomous region since 2008, with the U.S. government and the Institute for International Law and Human Rights that's based in D.C. and Brussels. We have been working closely with them, and we hope that Canada could join other allies to form this. Then, at the same time, there are many Muslims who live in the minorities' area too.

As you mentioned, to separate church from the state would be great. That can work long term, but short term, I don't think any of the Yazidis or Chaldo-Assyrian Christians would trust the Iraqi government or the KRG government, because they were not able to protect us. They didn't do it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Mr. Ismail.

We're going to now move to MP Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you for being with us today.

One of our witnesses the other day talked about the proliferation and potential proliferation and expansion of sect-specific militias in the area. Groups of people in villages or who have similar beliefs are getting together and forming their own militias.

Can you talk about that? Have the Yazidis done that, and how are they protecting themselves?

[Mirza Ismail]

Both the Yazidis and Chaldo-Assyrian Christians, from the first day, they formed their armed...and whoever owned a gun. For example, on Sinjar mountain, no internationals went to support them or to save them. They were saved by the local Yazidis, with only very basic weapons, such as AK-47s, and for the Assyrians, it's the same thing.

So, yes, we have more than 5,000 armed Yazidis in Mount Sinjar, and Sheikhan, Bashiqa, and Barzan. They are the ones. Unfortunately, the KRG is against forming any forces. We are screaming for support from the west because we know the KRG is not going to protect us. In fact, they will always try to destroy us.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can I ask whether the Christians find themselves in a similar situation? Do you see similar organization there as well?

[Mirza Ismail]

Yes.

We work closely with the Assyrian Aid Society, so we have very good contact with the Assyrian democratic movement in northern Iraq. That has its own militia to protect the Christians in northern Iraq.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

If this safe zone doesn't get set up in the near future or whatever, you said you're still at risk of continued discrimination. Where would that discrimination come from? Where should the international community be watching? Is the KRG that aggressive, or is it coming from some other places?

[Mirza Ismail]

The discrimination is coming from the KRG.

Under the Saddam regime for 34 years, Saddam imposed Arabic ethnicity on Yazidis. Then, when Saddam was gone, the KRG took over Saddam's unfinished work and they imposed Kurdification on Yazidis. They already have bought many Yazidis with money, including the Yazidi prince and others, like Khairi Bozani, or Mahama Khalil. They buy them with money and then they send them to meet with officials in the west and say that the Yazidis are Kurds, which doesn't make any sense. When the Yazidi and Chaldo-Assyrians used to live together more than 6,000 years ago, there was no mention of Kurds in the world.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You talked about your safe zone, and one of my colleagues asked for a little bit more information on that. How would you see that as being set up? How would security be taken care of? How would you establish a justice system? What would be the legislative representation for people? Do you have an idea of what you're asking for?

[Mirza Ismail]

What is now called the disputed area is the Nineveh plain and the Sinjar region. In both areas, more than 85% to 90% of the population are Yazidis and Christians, and they have lived together like brothers and sisters for thousands of years. In fact, they have saved each other, to the extent that they could save one another. The Yazidis in the past, during the Ottoman Empire, they saved more than 20,000 Armenians. The Ottomans sent a letter to the Yazidi leader, who at that time was Hamo Sharro. The Ottomans said if the Yazidis would hand over Armenian Christians, they would not be attacked but if they didn't hand them over, the Ottomans would commit an attack against the Yazidis. The Yazidis tore up the letter and said, “Commit whatever you want to commit. We are brothers and sisters and we are not going to hand them over to you.” Then the Ottomans came from Istanbul and attacked the Sinjar region.

As for the autonomous region, according to the Iraqi constitution, Iraq is now a federal country. The Yazidis and Christians wish to get help and support from the west to create an autonomous zone, so that when they have their own separate administration, they will be able to defend themselves within Iraq.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

These small communities have to resettle and they have to move back in with their neighbours. We've had other testimony talking about how difficult that's going to be. Do you think it is possible? Can these communities come back together and live in harmony?