Evidence of meeting #4 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rohingya.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shwe Maung  As an Individual

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

I call this meeting to order. I think all the members of the committee are here.

I would like to begin by welcoming our guest, who will be providing testimony today: U Shwe Maung, who is with us here by video conference.

It is our great pleasure to have you as part of our committee today, and we're looking forward to hearing from you as a former member of the lower house, a former member of parliament in Myanmar in 2010. Then, obviously, you're going to share with us your story about what's happened since then and some of the challenges you've faced, both for yourself and also for the Rohingya people in the area.

With that, we'll begin with Mr. Anderson, please.

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Does he have a statement?

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Sorry; yes.

Would you like to start with your opening statement?

1:10 p.m.

Shwe Maung As an Individual

Yes, I want to introduce myself. It will just be a short introduction.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Please take as long as you need.

1:10 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

My name is U Shwe Maung, also known as Abdul Razak. I was a member of parliament in Myanmar from 2010 to 2015, but I was barred from the re-election in 2015.

Thank you.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Would you like to deliver your opening statement, your remarks?

1:10 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Yes. I have four pages of notes, so if you allow me, Mr. Chair, I can continue.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Yes. We have 10 minutes for an opening statement.

1:10 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak about the current human rights situation of the Rohingya in Myanmar, to testify before the House of Commons Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Let me introduce myself. My name is U Shwe Maung, also known as Abdul Razak, and I am a former member of parliament in Myanmar, from 2010 to 2015. In my country, there was a historic election on November 8, 2015. The National League for Democracy party, the NLD, led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, won a landslide victory.

Effective from April 1, 2016, the previous USDP government, led by President U Thein Sein, transferred the state power to the NLD. As the NLD was unsuccessful in amending the 2008 constitution in the previous parliamentary term, the core of state power is still in the hands of the Myanmar military. The ministries of home affairs, defence, border affairs, immigration, and religious affairs are under the command of the Myanmar military chief. The region, state, district, and township administrators and the Myanmar Police Force are under the command of the home ministry.

I am trying to say that the core of state power is still in the hands of the military group, although the NLD formed a civilian government. In this situation, NLD submitted a bill for a post of State Counsellor of Myanmar for its chairperson, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, to parliament as she was barred from becoming president, and the bill was approved. Now she is the State Counsellor of Myanmar. She is leading the NLD government and performing duties as if president of Myanmar.

The honourable Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is trying her best to reform the country's old system, bit by bit. We appreciate her correct steps for a new era, but she is still silent about the plight of the Rohingya. She took the side of the oppressor. She and her party have been denying the existence of the Rohingya people in Myanmar.

In the context of Rohingya and Muslim issues, the USD Party and the NLD party have been exercising the same political pattern, although they have a huge number of differences in nationwide politics.

Since 2012, there has been violence against the Rohingya and the Kaman people in Rakhine State, and in 2013 violence in Meikhtila, a township of central Myanmar. Both parties favour the hate speeches of the nationalist Buddhist group Ma Ba Tha directly or indirectly.

In October 2012, there was a second outbreak of violence against Rohingya and Kaman Muslims. In this connection, I submitted an emergency proposal to take action on the violence against the Rohingya and Kaman from Kyauk Pru Township to the Speaker of parliament, Thura U Shwe Mann, through the USD Party. The Speaker asked the chair of the rule of law committee, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, but she denied it.

Finally, the National Unity Party submitted the proposal. Of course, I had the opportunity to discuss it and I called for the Ministry of Home Affairs to reform the police force of Rakhine State, as policemen were involved in the violence, according to Rohingya and Kaman victims. When the 2013 violence broke out in Meikhtila, the NLD MP for Meikhtila, U Win Htein, blamed Muslims instead of the culprits.

The USDP proposed an amendment of the constitution referendum bill and parliamentary electoral bills to exclude the voting rights of 1.3 million Rohingya, even though Rohingya were allowed to vote in all previous elections. Neither Daw Aung San Suu Kyi nor any single NLD MP objected to those bills. This was a conspiracy of Thura U Shwe Mann and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi to disenfranchise the Rohingya from the November 2015 election. Both parties did not nominate a single candidate to run for the election. The Rakhine State election commission and the Union Election Commission denied my right to run for office in the November 8, 2015, election even though I was a sitting MP.

I was denied the right to contest the election because the immigration department and the election commission falsely claimed my parents were not citizens of Myanmar when I was born, but in the 2010 election, the same immigration department and election commission approved my paperwork for candidacy and I was elected in the Buthidaung constituency of Rakhine State.

I would like to say that this is the most laughable joke in the 21st century. I am not the only one: all Rohingya candidates were targeted for exclusion. Dozens of Burmese Muslim candidates had also been rejected by election authorities. Make no mistake: it was because of our ethnicity and religion.

During a press conference just before the election, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi described the persecution of the Rohingya as an exaggeration. She also publicly said, during a visit to Europe in 2013, that she was a politician, not a human rights defender. She also told the media several times that the Rohingya issue is an immigration issue, a rule of law issue, and the responsibility of the government.

Mr. Chair, now honourable Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is foreign minister, president's office minister, and State Counsellor. She is leading the government.

Let me highlight what the NLD government did so far in the first month of its term. A lot of political prisoners were released by order of the NLD president and State Counsellor, but Rohingya and Burmese Muslim political prisoners were excluded. Approximately 1,000 Rohingya were imprisoned on false charges after the 2012 violence, which caused 140,000 internally displaced persons. Religious affairs minister Thura U Aung Ko accused all Muslims of Myanmar as “associate citizens” or so-called “guest citizens” during an interview with RFA Burmese.

According to the 1982 citizenship law, the rights of associate citizens are not so different from those of foreigners. In practice, associate citizens are viewed and treated as foreigners by government agencies in my country. Although Muslim organizations urged the NLD government to release a statement to show its policy towards Muslims in Myanmar, the NLD and the honourable State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi were silent.

Then about 20 Kaman and Rohingya IDPs drowned after a boat capsized off the coast near Sittwe, Rakhine State. The NLD government did not help any victims and did not release any statement of condolences, but the U.S. embassy in Rangoon released a statement of condolences, and it used the term “Rohingya”. After that, the nationalist Buddhist Ma Ba Tha group provided hate speeches, insulting not only the Rohingya but also the U.S. embassy in Rangoon, the U.S. ambassador, Mr. Scot Marciel, and the U.S. government. Then Ma Ba Tha and the Myanmar National Network organized a demonstration in front of the U.S. embassy in Rangoon on April 28, 2016. During the demonstration, the Ma Ba Tha chief sent a communication that insulted Rohingya, the U.S. embassy, and the U.S. government as well.

The Myanmar Police Force issued a permit to demonstrate, and the police are accomplices. Probably the permit was issued with the agreement of the home minister, but the NLD kept quiet as if nothing was happening in the country.

The National Democratic Force party, the NDF—this is another party in Myanmar—released a statement criticizing the U.S. embassy statement and the U.S. ambassador for the usage of “Rohingya” but did not show any sympathy for the victims. The NDF party is a nationalist party that always blames and insults Rohingya in co-operation with extremist Rakhine politicians.

In their statement, the NDF urged the NLD government to release a statement on the issue of the usage of “Rohingya” by the U.S. embassy. In this connection, RFA Burmese interviewed NLD patron U Tin Oo, and he said it was the previous government that had decided about the term used for these people. The NLD government will not tell anything, and there are no Rohingya.

Mr. Chair, now it is crystal clear that the NLD party and the NLD-led government are not recognizing the Rohingya and are not willing to solve the Rohingya IDP camps problem. There are still 120,000 Rohingya IDPs due to the 2012 violence. I saw with my own eyes from a helicopter Rohingya houses being burnt by the Rakhine Buddhist extremists in Sittwe on June 10, 2012.

Since then, I have been advocating for the victims to be resettled and for the culprits and the policemen who were involved in the violence to be punished. No member of parliament listened to me, and no minister cared about my questions or proposals.

I compiled a book of facts on the existence of the Rohingya and a solution of peaceful coexistence and handed it to the Speaker, Thura U Shwe Mann, and NLD chair Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and all union MPs in 2013, but neither Thura U Shwe Mann nor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi have responded to me yet. Both of them are politically unwilling to solve Rohingya issues. They are using “silent diplomacy”.

If this is the case, the plight of the Rohingya will be doubled in the near future. We are not illegal immigrants. We don't need to be naturalized. We have been demanding restoration of our rights, including citizenship and political rights.

For Rohingya, conditions remain grave as of today. I myself visited IDP camps in Sittwe on August 31, 2015. Their situation was so dire. Children are suffering from malnutrition. Elders are suffering from disease. Sittwe General Hospital is like a Nazi hospital for Rohingyas. Most of the in-patients were reportedly killed by Buddhist nurses. Rohingyas are scared to go to the General Hospital. Medical clinics in the camps are not equipped for all kinds of treatments. Thus, most Rohingya patients want to be hospitalized in Rangoon instead of in Sittwe. In this case, officials charge huge amounts of money, and most of the patients are unable to pay.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

I am sorry to interrupt. We have about another 30 seconds left, but what you can do is come back to some of this, perhaps, in your answers. I know you have some recommendations at the end as well.

If you could wrap it up, I thank you.

1:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Okay.

Finally, they remain in the camps and are waiting for death. Some try to go to Bangladesh for better medical treatment. When they return, they are charged with illegal border crossing and imprisoned for one to two years. Most of the patients are women and children. Some of my cousins are victims in this case. Rohingyas are not allowed to move freely and they are also facing a lot of problems today.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask the members of the committee if we can adopt having the balance of this included in the minutes, as read.

We'll now move to questions for the witness and start with Mr. Anderson.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Hello, sir. It is good to see you again.

The chair has your document, but we do not have it. I understand you have some recommendations, so I'm wondering if you would like to take a couple of minutes to lay out some of the recommendations you've made. Your presentation suggests that peaceful coexistence is possible, and there are some other suggestions you made. I'll sacrifice my time if you would be willing to lay out the recommendations that you would have in place for your situation.

1:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Thank you, Mr. David.

Let me continue. Rohingyas are facing problems, and as of today they are denial of full-fledged citizenship, treatment of Rohingyas as if foreigners, uncertainty of citizenship processing, denial of Rohingya ethnicity, accusation as illegal immigrants, no freedom of movement, lack of access to higher education, uncertain life at IDP camps, and restriction of marriage.

The worst thing is the restriction of freedom of movement within our own country. Every town in Rakhine State for Rohingyas is like an open prison.

Therefore, on behalf of the Rohingya in Myanmar, I would like to request the Parliament of Canada and the Government of Canada, through the chair of this committee, to urge or press Myanmar State Counsellor Aung San Suu Kyi and Myanmar military commander-in-chief Min Aung Hlaing to implement the following immediately.

Here are my recommendations:

Stop all abuses against the Rohingya in Rakhine State.

Make a road map to deal with the Rohingya crisis.

Allow freedom of movement.

Allow access to higher education and build enough primary schools.

Resettle Rohingya IDPs to houses on their original lands.

Dismantle the partition fence between Rakhine and the Rohingya community in Sittwe, Rakhine State.

Recognize Rohingya ethnicity officially.

Grant or restore full-fledged citizenship and political rights to Rohingya.

Include and invite Rohingya representatives to the forthcoming 21st century pinlon conference of national reconciliation.

Mr. Chairman, let me stop my presentation here and thank you so much for your time. Also, thank you, Mr. David.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

David, you still have another four and a half minutes.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for you.

Discrimination doesn't happen when societies don't prevent it. I guess I would be interested in knowing what needs to happen in Myanmar society. Is there a role that Canadians can play in making some of those changes? What needs to take place in order for your people to be able to live fully as citizens in Myanmar?

1:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

In fact, the Rohingya people are an indigenous group in Myanmar, so without the amendment of the citizenship law.... With the existing law, if the government is politically willing, they can grant all Rohingya full-fledged citizenship, but the biggest obstacle is that the government—the previous government as well as the current NLD government—has not shown any political willingness to solve this problem.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Tell us a little bit about how the change in the application of the citizenship law has affected you. You were a member of parliament. You were not even allowed to put your name in as a candidate this time. Is that correct? Could you just tell us a little bit about how that came about, how the government felt that they would have any right to do that to you and to others?

1:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

I was elected in two government elections. When I submitted the same paperwork to the election commission and officials in Rakhine State as well as the union election commission, they dismissed and denied my paperwork by claiming falsely that my parents were not citizens when I was born. This is ridiculous, because after independence, all Myanmar citizens, including my father, even all the speakers of parliament, even the former General Ne Win, all held the same card. But after the adoption of the 1982 citizenship law, they just blindly accused the Rohingya of not being citizens, and they don't recognize the card that the previous government issued.

If there's a will, they can recognize the Rohingya immediately, without the amendment of a single article of the existing citizenship law.

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

How can the Canadian government encourage Canadian businesses to make a difference there? We're talking about investments, and talking to your country about removing sanctions, those kinds of things. How can Canadian businesses help as they come into your country and invest in it?

1:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

I would like to request that Canadian businessmen, through the Canadian Parliament and government, not do any business with the Myanmar government. If they are willing, they need to talk to the authorities, especially State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, to solve the Rohingya issue and grant citizenship to the Rohingya so that they can enjoy equal rights together with other people. I think in this way Canadian businessmen, and of course the Canadian government, can take measures to solve this problem.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt

Thank you very much.

We're going to move right along to Ms. Khalid.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your presentation.

I found the recommendations that you outlined very interesting. I'm of the strong belief that we can't force a country to collaborate or force them to receive the help that we're willing to offer at this point.

Now, a few months ago, I believe, on BBC News, Aung San Suu Kyi had a bit of a spat with a reporter when she was asked to condemn the plight of the Rohingya and the atrocities that were being committed against them. She was quoted as saying, “No one told me I was going to be interviewed by a Muslim.” It's not conclusive, but it does perhaps lead to a thought that maybe the government at this time doesn't want to really help the plight of the Rohingya.

What is your opinion on that?

1:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Shwe Maung

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me answer the member's comments and questions.

Let me compare before and after the election. Before the election we had a similar way of thinking. They thought they may have a problem winning the election, so since nationalist Buddhist groups are giving hate speeches, they may worry about losing the majority of the votes in the country. Although it looks like a good idea, I don't agree with it, because if the NLD or any party is afraid of losing votes in the 2015 election, what about the 2020 election? There will be more elections in the future, so if they follow that course, they will never be able to solve their problem.

This is why Daw Aung San Suu Kyi was saying that she would not have done the interview if she had known that Mishal Husain is a Muslim, but I'm pretty sure Daw Aung San Suu Kyi would know that BBC correspondent Mishal Husain is a Muslim, because she has a Muslim name. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi also went to Oxford University.

She talks that way to show she supports the Buddhist majority. She's pro-Buddhist and indirectly she's anti-Muslim. If this happened in the 2015 election, who will guarantee it will not happen in the 2020 election? It is very dangerous for our country.

Aung San Suu Kyi is talking about freedom from fear to the people of Myanmar, but now she is feeling fear—fear of not winning the election. Therefore, I would like to also ask our State Counsellor to be brave enough to tell the truth to the people of Myanmar about the banning of diversity and the value of a pluralistic society. If they are still exercising this policy in the remainder of this parliamentary session, they will not try to solve any Rohingya problem.

Thank you.