Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 3rd, 2016

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

We understand it is a very new government, and new governments transitioning into a democratic way of governing themselves need assistance. Do you think that Canada can offer mentorship that would allow the government to learn how Canada has embraced democracy and how we celebrate it? Do you think that Myanmar would be able to learn from those lessons of Canadian government in an open and inclusive way?

[Shwe Maung]

Yes, I think that would be a very good idea. Therefore, I'm asking the Canadian Parliament and government, in collaboration with the international community, to advocate by showing examples of diversity in Canada so that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi will have a chance to explain to her people in Myanmar and the majority of the people will understand diversity, the value of religion, and what freedom of religion and human rights are. Most people in Myanmar, the nationalists, think human rights and freedom are only for them, not for the Muslim or the Christian.

Recently there were a lot of problems with the Christian church. A monk was trying to build a monastery, and near a Muslim mosque, a monk was trying to build a pagoda. The nationalists think the Buddhist religion is the super-religion and others are not important.

Therefore, if Canadian businessmen or the Canadian Parliament could do that, that would be a very good idea. I fully agree with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much. We'll move along to the third questioner. Go ahead, Ms. Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask our guest to maybe talk a little about some of the prospects for co-operation and the role you think the Canadian government could play. Do you know right now if there are discussions taking place among the new governing party with regard to easing up on the restrictions you mentioned earlier, and the laws that discriminate against religious minorities? Where would some of the prospects for co-operation be?

[Shwe Maung]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me answer the question of the honourable member. As of today, I don't see any hint that the new government, even the NLD Party, is ready to talk with our Rohingya representative inside our country. Although a lot of political parties, representatives, and politicians tried to approach even Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, her party was unwilling to meet with them.

This is why I call in my recommendation for an invitation to include Rohingya representatives in the forthcoming pinlon conference of national reconciliation. In these days, in an interview, NLD patron U Tin Oo asked where Rohingya was in connection with the demonstration in front of the U.S. embassy in Rangoon.

Before the election, in 2014 and 2011 a high-ranking NLD official mentioned the Rohingya several times, but now they are not using the word. Even now they are very reluctant to meet with Rohingya representatives.

Let me give you another example. During the previous session, I tried to talk to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi three times, but she didn't give me time. The first time she gave me three seconds, with a smile and a “How are you?” The second time there was a small smile. The third time she just left.

Also I submitted a fact book on the Rohingya, “A Truthful Rohingya Solution”, and it was handed over to her and also to the previous speaker, Thura U Shwe Mann, but they didn't reply at all.

If I include all these things, we can say they are still not ready to talk or discuss. Therefore, maybe the Canadian Parliament and the government can ask our State Counsellor to discuss it in the very near future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

You still have 45 seconds.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Then you'd like to see Canadian businesses implementing some kind of sanctions or Canada taking a stand so that there would be movement. You don't see any prospect for co-operation right now, and you think we would be able to play a role. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Shwe Maung]

Yes. In fact, I didn't want to say that, but the situation has forced me to say so, because I am also repeating the idea of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.

When she was denied by the rebel military regime, she called on the U.S. government and all industrial countries for sanctions. We believe these sanctions worked a lot for democratic changes in our country. Similarly, I am expecting that some sort of other sanction may help solve this Rohingya crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you.

I'm now going to ask Mr. Miller to have his five minutes.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Razak, for your testimony, and more importantly for your courage.

The test of a young democracy, or any democracy, is how they treat their minorities or those most vulnerable, and obviously you've identified a number of failings in respect of the Rohingya.

I want to go into a little more detail as to what you think the genesis is of the silence of the current government. Obviously, you've touched on religious or quasi-religious tension, but I'd like you to develop in more detail what you think the basis is for the inertia or lack of movement that exists in the current government.

[Shwe Maung]

Could you please repeat? I didn't get the main point. Could you do it again?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'd like you to touch a little more on what you believe are the current reasons for the lack of movement of the current government, or the inertia in the government in treating this issue head-on, and the challenge that a young democracy faces in defending your rights or at least giving you some very basic rights to exist in Burma.

[Shwe Maung]

I understand that the democracy is very young, and also that the government is, let's say, favouring the wrong men, but any government could at least take steps. They could speak up. The problem is that they are totally silent.

What I am saying is not based only on this one-month period. I have been closely monitoring the political patterns and ideas of the NLD Party since 2012, when they came to parliament by election, and they have not shown anything, so they are not trying to solve this problem.

In other areas, of course they are trying. They face so many challenges. There may be another issue, a hidden issue. Although, as I said earlier, the NLD has formed a civilian government, still the main power is in the hands of the military group, so the Rohingya issue becomes a political tool for political gain. If somebody tries to solve the Rohingya issue, another group may take advantage of them. That kind of situation worsens the plight of the Rohingya.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you.

You briefly mentioned the role of the military. Could you just touch as well on its role in the current government and the influence you think it is playing?

[Shwe Maung]

Yes, but let me say out loud that the government is... We can call it a sugar-coated democracy, because when we go deeper, we see that the main authority of the country is in the hands of the home ministry and the defence ministry. In their everyday lives, grassroots people have to face the local administrator. These local administrators are not elected personnel; they are appointed directly by the Minister of Home Affairs, so they are faithful in principle to the home ministry.

At the grassroots level all of Myanmar, including the Rohingya, is still facing a military-like administration. Because of the constitution, the home minister, the defence minister, and the border affairs minister are not allowed to be appointed by the president but are nominated by the military chief. Moreover, the immigration minister is not mentioned in the constitution, but is also appointed in a compromise between the NLD and the military group.

A former general was appointed as the new immigration minister. The immigration ministry is very important for this issue, so there's a political game between these two groups.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Now, Mr. Sweet, it's your five minutes.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you very much, Mr. Shwe Maung, for your testimony, your bravery, and your courage.

Can I ask you how many Rohingya applied to run in the 2015 election, and how many were permitted to do so?

[Shwe Maung]

More than 25 Rohingya applied; all of them were denied.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

You mentioned earlier that every member of the NLD voted in favour of the bill that disenfranchised Rohingya from being citizens of Burma. Is that correct?

[Shwe Maung]

Yes. When the bill was initiated by the USD Party MPs, no NLD MP objected to that abuse. If they didn't object, logically we have to say they accepted it. They didn't argue anything.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

They didn't argue against the bill, but they didn't necessarily vote for the bill. Is that what you're saying?

[Shwe Maung]

Yes, they didn't necessarily vote for the bill. Therefore, with a majority of votes the bill would have passed.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Okay.

You've been speaking out quite courageously. Have you paid any price personally for your courage to speak out?

[Shwe Maung]

I have paid a big price because of my voice for the persecuted Rohingya people.

I'm now living in the United States of America. As Mr. David knows very well, I came to the United States of America to attend an IPPForB conference and a number of meetings with the State Department and, of course, to attend the U.S. Congress.

After that, the President of Myanmar, the Speaker of the parliament, the USD Party and the military group co-operatively created a trap for me. The trap is that if I return home, they will arrest me at the airport. Then they can charge me, as of May 1, I believe, with the Duchiradan fire, the blaze of 2014.

At that time I criticized the Myanmar Police Force. As my constituents informed me, the police were involved in the blaze, but at the same time the Myanmar government accused the Rohingya people. They said they burned it themselves. I said, “No, it's not true. According to the people, the police burned their houses.” For that the president, Thein Sein, sent a letter to the Speaker to issue an arrest warrant. This is a grudge against me.

After that, I resigned from the UNDP. It's another grudge. The main thing is that I have been repeatedly advocating for the Rohingya people. Therefore, they don't want me to go back to my country because they want to use me as a symbol. Who will speak for the Rohingya? Who will speak on the part of these people? He or she will be punished. This is the idea. For these reasons, although I am very willing to go home, I can't, because in collaboration with the police they have already issued an arrest warrant against me.

I think this is the price I pay because I raised my voice for the persecuted people.