Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 23rd, 2017

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Just as a quick follow-up, then, do the children who are kidnapped, who are brought in to become child soldiers for different tribes within South Sudan, later on go on to become commanders? As well, are there organizations working to reintegrate child soldiers and to bring them back into their communities?

[David Morley]

May I answer that?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Please. Thank you.

[David Morley]

Reintegration is something that we are responsible for at UNICEF. When I used to work for Médecins Sans Frontières, we knew in Sierra Leone that UNICEF was responsible for that. It is one of the most difficult things you can imagine. After what the children have been through, and how their own communities feel about the children if they've had to commit atrocities to be part of something.... I think that notion, the psychosocial work for both the community and the children themselves, is something that is far beyond what we can imagine in Canada.

I do think the issue of accountability of the commanders is extremely important, but similarly, if we can't work on the reintegration of those children, that also will be a threat to the future stability and peace of the country. You need both of those aspects. Certainly in my career, and this has been my career, the hardest component of anything we do is the reintegration of children.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

MP Sweet, you have time for a last question.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Gentlemen, I want to thank both of you for your organizations' great work.

Mr. Morley, I was at the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan. UNICEF is doing a great job with other international partners there. I just wanted to commend you on that.

Time is always our enemy in these committees, so I have just one question. I anticipate knowing your answer, but I'd like to get your answer on the record.

The “responsibility to protect” doctrine—my colleagues all know that this is a hobby horse of mine, which I don't mind at all—has three tiers. One is the responsibility for the government of any country to keep its citizens safe from war crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity, and ethnic cleansing. The second one is for the international community to encourage or help that country with those responsibilities. The third pillar is one that calls for international communities to be prepared for decisive and timely action, using coercive measures if necessary, in order to have the country comply with this responsibility to protect. The doctrine was created in 2005 and reaffirmed by the United Nations in 2009.

Are we past the point now where the third pillar should be actioned by the international community?

[Jonathan Pedneault]

I don't know if you want to answer, Mr. Morley.

[David Morley]

It's very difficult. You would know better than I do, sir, about what is needed inside the country. I don't know if we've reached that point or not. I think our colleagues would know. We work more on the humanitarian side of it, but I think we're certainly at a desperate time. I don't know what Human Rights Watch—

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Let me help you a bit. You've mentioned that we were talking about catastrophic famine with a displacement of plenty of people, with child soldiers, 19,000 being released, 17,000 still in custody that you know of, and also you've mentioned the failure of the international community in the arms embargo. How much more collateral damage would there need to be before the international community should take this doctrine seriously and take action? A coercive action would be an international arms embargo.

[David Morley]

We need to take the doctrine seriously. A real arms embargo is important because clearly what the international community has been doing has not been sufficient so far.

[Jonathan Pedneault]

Clearly the first pillar is violated on a daily basis by the Government of South Sudan.

The second pillar should not even be talked about because even if there was a desire to train soldiers to respond to IHL or to provide capacity building to the state of South Sudan, that's been tried and clearly has failed, as we can see.

The third pillar is not a decision for us to take as an organization, but what is clear to us is that consequences need to be enacted and accountability needs to take place. A government cannot actively kill segments of its population or rape or encourage or allow its soldiers to rape countless women with the international community still considering that government as a law-abiding actor; it is not. Now it's up to the international community and the UN system and countries like Canada to stand up for those values and defend them by enacting consequences against those who would see those values as an option.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, again thank you for joining us today. Your testimony was of the utmost importance to us as we move forward with this very important study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Before we adjourn, MPs Anderson and Tabbara have come to me with the request for a one-day session on the Dadaab refugee camp in Kenya. I think MP Anderson drew the short straw. Do you want to give us the 30-second explanation about it?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Some of us showed interest in this. We brought it to the committee. We were asked to work together to try to present a motion to the committee. We've done that. I think we agree on the content. I'll provide a quick review. This is the world's largest refugee camp. The situation in Somalia continues to be unsafe. The Kenyan government and the United Nations have worked together. They have a voluntary repatriation program that I think we should probably consider looking at while we're there. It's returned over 50,000 Somalis, and the UNHCR is cutting supplies to the camp to encourage its voluntary program. I think we have an obligation to take a look at this, and I think there is a deadline.

[An hon. member]

It's May.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. The Kenyan government has put a deadline of May on the camp, so I think if we could look at this sometime in April or early May, that would be very valuable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Okay.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

We're presenting it to the committee for their consideration, to add it to the agenda.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Okay, good. If we have general agreement, then I will work with the clerk. Do we have agreement?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

That's super.

Thank you very much and thank you for working together and bringing this to the committee.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Mr. Chair, just one small administrative thing....

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Yes.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

We put in a request for a witness, Vinansio Wani-Lado, in regard to this.

I just want to make sure you got that.