Evidence of meeting #58 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problem.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Acting Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No, but it would be easy to get you that, and we will.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
You know what? It would have been easy to have it here, too, because this is specifically....We spent quite a bit of time preparing for this study. Ms. Khalid's taken the lead on that. I think we're pretty much disappointed in the content of what we're getting here today.
I'll switch over to something else that maybe you do know, then. You talked about the fact that in Latin America and the Caribbean we've spent $5.1 million on anti-trafficking programming there.
Mr. Drake, would you be familiar with that? What are we doing there with $5.1 million that we could perhaps suggest we might be able to do in India as well?
Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you very much. In fact, I was looking to comment on that.
This is a part of our anti-crime capacity building program. It's under me in our department. It's not foreign aid per se, and it's very much designed to strengthen the ability of the local governments to deal with smuggling. As you know, with human smuggling, as in trafficking, there is a particular stream that comes from Central America, up through Mexico, through the U.S., and up to Canada. We're focused on that.
This is quite a small fund. It's quite effective. We're doing some very good work, but I should point out that this is designed to work beside our own public safety and portfolio attempts to work with local governments.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Can you give me some specifics, then? If it's working effectively, what kinds of things is it accomplishing? I know we put money into particular development of legal systems, supporting justice, and supporting police training in some of these South American and Caribbean countries, but specifically what is this doing to impact trafficking?
Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Well, certainly I'll get back to you with more details, but the intent is to make sure that we support police border control and judicial systems in dealing with this. In many cases, they simply do not know how to properly process from a judicial perspective. We're certainly focused on that to work across borders, because there are multiple countries involved. So we're helping. I'll certainly provide you with more information on that, detailed information.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Can you come back a little bit and talk to us about the caste discrimination? I know they're changing the names of this. How does that come into play here? I understand that almost two-thirds of the women trafficked in India are from the Delhi caste. Can you talk a bit about that?
Acting Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The caste is the poorest in the country. To go back to Mr. Drake's earlier statements, since one of the major drivers of human trafficking is poverty, that's where they come from.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Do you find particular religious minorities are impacted as well? You mentioned a couple. It sounds as if, talking about religion, it's maybe a function of some of the religious communities. Is there any particular religious community that's affected more by this than others?
Acting Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I don't think so, proportionately, but I can confirm that.
Conservative
Acting Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No. The biggest indicator appears to be poverty. It's the economic status and not the social status.
It's going to be mostly Hindu, because the country is mostly Hindu. Also, it's going to be mostly rural, because the country is mostly rural. That's the only pattern I've been able to detect.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
That means we won't find the same patterns that we're finding in other countries, where there are ethnic divisions, and people are specifically targeting other groups. You're saying that within the Hindu community, it's probably.... It just takes place within the Muslim community. It takes place....
Acting Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I'm saying that I haven't found it, sir. I'm sure you'll have deeper research than I've been able to do in the last week that I've had to look into this matter.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Let's go back to Mr. Drake. You said the Indian government has some fairly heavy penalties on this.
Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
They do.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I know they have, apparently, a law that was introduced in 2016 and was revised, but it hasn't been put into place yet. How do they track...? Do you have any familiarity with their tracking system in terms of these crimes and the prosecution of them?
Director General, Counter-Terrorism, Crime and Intelligence Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
To be honest, I don't know in detail.
I know there is some very good information about that, including a U.S. report. The U.S. focuses on this, I think. I've been noting that a lot of your indicators are coming from that report, such as the 77%, and so forth. Although I can't provide it—I can certainly try to provide more—there is a lot of information out there to satisfy your request.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
It's a good thing it's out there because it's not here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt
With that and it being 1:59, I'm going to call this meeting to a close.
I think there is a fair bit of information that wasn't made available, either because it wasn't known or.... Anyway, there are a number of points that can be followed up on.
Again, we lead with Global Affairs because we hope to get a bit of a grounding and background as we move forward. It's the place we generally start. I think all members of this committee would appreciate getting some of that information provided to the clerk so that we can use it as we continue on in this very important study that Ms. Khalid has brought to us.
Thank you very much.
We are adjourned.