Evidence of meeting #68 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was india.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:25 p.m.
Senior Director, Implementation, Breakthrough Trust
If you look at the panchayat, it has a dual role. On the one hand, it is [Technical difficulty—Editor] as for the Punjabi... Within the panchayat, the caste system plays a major role. The customary law is based on these norms, which are enforced within the panchayat. As my colleague from Mumbai was saying [Technical difficulty—Editor].
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt
Mr. Jose, we're having difficulty hearing you. Your signal is breaking in and out. I'm going to suggest that the technical adviser try to reconnect the line to see if we can get it better.
Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
I'll ask Mr. Tank a question.
What is the impact of the media and the entertainment industry, such as Bollywood, in establishing the status quo and how women and women's rights are perceived in India? How does that impact trafficking?
1:30 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
Unfortunately, what I'm thinking may not be totally right. There are movies where a very well-established actor has been abusing one of the prostitutes and the way he is treating her.... I don't know how great the contribution is from the Bollywood industry. I'm sure there are a lot of people who do not want minor girls and other girls to be forceably kept and exploited in brothels.
I wish this particular issue of human trafficking was as popular as...orphanages or other major issues, like cancer or any other thing. There is a lot of social stigma. Nobody wants to talk about prostitutes and their well-being. It is so tainted and misinterpreted that nobody wants to address it. As a kid, my father never spoke about prostitutes in my house, or about how they are living, or whether they want to live there or not. We still have a long way to go.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Thank you for appearing before our committee and for the good work that you do.
Ms. Khalid asked about challenges in applying and enforcing India's new anti-trafficking law. I'd like to take a step back from that to ask you to comment on the legislation itself. What are its strengths and weaknesses? Do you think it will make a positive difference?
1:30 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
There is a new amendment pending, as we've been reading in the newspaper. There is victim compensation. There are inter-state investigations and a lot of suggestions that will be taken from across the country from various other organizations. However, as I said, laws will only get enforced if people, governments, authorities, and police change their mindset. It is important that they start taking this issue very seriously. In our country, the majority of the time when you go to a police station saying that there's a girl who's been pushed into prostitution and she doesn't want to stay there, unfortunately, their response is not what it should be, since they have so many other offences to take care of, like molestation, murder, or any number of things. Their response is very weak. We have to find our way by going to authorities or their superiors to ask them, please, can you help us? Give us at least one or two policeman, and we'll have our staff and more staff....
It is difficult. These laws will get implemented and strictly enforced, if people change their mindset or if the government decides to do it at any cost.
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay.
Now you've spoken to us about trafficking between different states in India. I'm wondering if you could speak at all about trafficking between India and other countries.
1:30 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
It's the same format.
There are bigger traffickers in Bangladesh and Nepal, and because the border is porous, anybody can enter and anybody can get out. Nepal especially is like our little brother. There are a lot of people from Nepal working in this country.
It's difficult to catch these traffickers because they are not from our country, but one main trafficker will go to Nepal and bring that girl to some part of our country. In the case of Bangladesh, that guy helps to bring the girl through the borders, and they bring her to Kolkata in West Bengal. From there, there's another trafficker who brings her to Delhi or Pune or Mumbai. It is the same nexus.
Unfortunately, because we have our own limitations, we cannot go to another country and prosecute these people. Doing it the right way is a very long procedure.
1:35 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay.
I think you're talking about people being trafficked into India. Is there also an issue you could discuss of people from India being trafficked to other countries or other parts of the world?
1:35 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
I personally have not come across that situation. I'm assuming that Nepal has fewer economic or job opportunities, and that more money is given in India. Hence, the trafficking happens in India rather than there.
There is one positive hope that has been happening. From the girls that the Rescue Foundation has been rescuing, we've been finding a massive decline in the number of girls from Nepal.
It's not easy to find girls from Nepal in Mumbai or Pune, or in any other place. Unlike five to 10 years back, there were a lot of girls, and especially minor girls who had been trafficked from Nepal and brought to India.
I also want to quickly point out that natural calamities or riots are the best places for traffickers, because they take advantage of kids who are vulnerable. They've lost their parents or misplaced them. If they're missing, then they will take them and bring them to India immediately.
1:35 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
You described this decline in trafficking from Nepal.
Do you know what has caused that? Has there been some successful policy or legislation in Nepal recently?
1:35 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
I think it is because of the way people from Nepal look. It's not easy. If anybody from Nepal is in India, you know by the way he or she talks that the person is from Nepal. They know it very easily, and hence the trafficker.... I mean, one of the investigators told me that it is not easy because they feel it is a lot of risk—a massive risk.
That is unlike somebody from Bangladesh, who looks very much like an Indian. Every Bangladeshi girl who comes to India has a fake bank card, an identification card with a false name. It's very easy to work with them.
With a girl from Nepal, then you have to justify where she is from. She doesn't speak a northeast language or any other languages in India. It's a risky job for them to take care and manage the police and authorities. I think that's the reason.
I'm sure there must be a lot of other reasons, but this is what we feel it is.
1:35 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay, thank you.
We've discussed a great deal on trafficking of girls and women. I'm wondering if this is also an issue with boys and young men.
1:35 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
Sorry, I didn't get your question. Can you repeat it, please?
1:35 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Would boys or men ever be the victims of sex trafficking, in your experience?
1:35 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
Every time I go to colleges and to corporations, I see that we are unfortunately a very male-dominated country and we don't see brothels where there are males and boys being exploited.
I want to put my point across by saying that human trafficking is 80% for commercial sex, and 20% is for begging and child labour. You will find kids working in smaller hotels as a waiter or as a steward, but we've never come across a red light area where there are children being trafficked. I'm sure there are instances where kids are being sexually exploited, for sure, but it's not like how it happens openly with minor girls or women in this country.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt
Thank you very much.
We will now move to MP Tabbara.
MP Tabbara, please go ahead.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with MP Fragiskatos.
Thank you for your testimony. Early on, you mentioned that the number one reason was poverty and lack of opportunities. In some of the reading I've been doing beforehand, I've read is that some of the girls have been pulled out of school prematurely because of the belief that education reduces their marriage prospects. Leaving school in turn decreases their potential economic independence and hinders their advancement.
Can you elaborate on this? You mentioned that the number one reason was poverty. How does lack of education combine with that?
1:40 p.m.
Project Director, Rescue Foundation
There could be instances, but in my opinion education has been pursued seriously, at least in the last two, three, or five years, especially from the time that the Right to Education Act was implemented. There are times when governments in Maharashtra and other parts of the country have gone to homes in which they found that there was a child who had not been put into the school, and they've gone ahead and made sure that they have sent that kid to school.
Education per se is definitely one of the topmost priorities, and we know that parents are inclined towards it, at least in my knowledge. You can, though, question the quality of education and the opportunities post-education. For example, if a child is studying until 10th grade, then we don't know; there is a massive drop-out after the 10th standard of the school. We know that they are doing a basic-level education, but we don't know how much it's helping. I'm not sure; I have not heard about girls not going to school and getting into anything else.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you. I agree that education is a very big factor in this, and to really combat human trafficking, we can alleviate it initially starting with education.
For my next question, answer briefly, because I want to save some time for my colleague. It is on rescue and rehabilitation for women who have, during the sex trafficking, caught HIV or other sexually transmitted diseases. What are some of the things your organization is doing to help young women and girls?