Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Sept. 28th, 2017

Evidence of meeting #73 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firms.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Human Rights Surrounding Natural Resource Extraction within Latin America

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Haslam Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Jeffery Webber Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

In 2006, there was a round table process that resulted in a multipartite agreement to have a tougher regime for Canadian companies that involved a kind of ombudsman with investigative power. That was originally agreed to by the mining industry. Having not been involved in any of that, what I understand from reading is that some players in the industry decided they no longer supported that arrangement, and the Harper government decided to go for a lighter version that was based around promoting CSR standards but without any disciplinary mechanism.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Do you think that was an act of goodwill or...? I ask that because the criticism is that it lacks teeth. We always hear that phrase about this initiative.

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

It lacks teeth?

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

It lacks teeth and therefore was not a sincere effort. Is that what you said?

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

Whether or not it was a sincere effort, I think the government was interested then in reducing both the incidence and perception of social conflict with Canadian firms.

The other part of the question is whether a regulatory response, as envisioned, would have had any effect either. I'm not in favour of discounting the self-regulatory option, only because I'm not really convinced the government—even if it had pursued a regulatory option—would have put the kinds of resources behind it to have any effect whatsoever.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

With all due respect though—and I think this question went to Mr. Webber on the part of Mr. Anderson—I'm going to guess that you two would also not see any... You're probably completely opposed to the mining sector being in Latin America.

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

I won't speak for my colleague, but that's not my position at all.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Oh, okay.

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

My position, as you'll see from my work, has always been.... I study the mining sector as a fact. I'm not interested in opinionating.... I am unlikely to ever—

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Everyone has a bias. Do you think the mining sector should have a presence in the private sector?

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

The private mining sector in Latin America has without a doubt contributed to lowering poverty levels in regions—

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

I don't mean to interrupt but there are timing issues.

Do you think there's a place for the private sector to engage in extraction activities?

1:55 p.m.

Professor, School of International Development and Global Studies, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Paul Haslam

Yes, yes, absolutely.

September 28th, 2017 / 1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Okay, thank you very much.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Mr. Webber, how would you answer that question?

1:55 p.m.

Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

Dr. Jeffery Webber

It was the same question to which I've already provided an answer.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

You said under the present context, no. Is there a context where it would be?

1:55 p.m.

Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

Dr. Jeffery Webber

That counterfactual relies on an extraordinary transformation of Latin American events in which you could not hold possibly the conditions equal to answer that. It would be simply without foundation.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Would a good start be 5% of net profits going into the communities that are directly affected?

1:55 p.m.

Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

Dr. Jeffery Webber

That would be an improvement on the present situation—

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Would that begin to change—

1:55 p.m.

Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

Dr. Jeffery Webber

—but certainly not enough to justify what the—

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

That wouldn't begin to change your mind.

1:55 p.m.

Senior Lecturer, School of Politics and International Relations, Queen Mary University of London, As an Individual

Dr. Jeffery Webber

That wouldn't begin to change my mind, no.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

I think both of you are probably of the same opinion, so perhaps I could get a yes or no on this.

Your position is that the corporate social responsibility counsellor is so ineffectual.... Would you think that's why when he was testifying here that there has been no complaints for the last two years.... Are you saying the communities on the ground see it as ineffectual, so they don't complain?