Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 12th, 2017

[Rakesh Patry]

We have colleagues from within our team at ESDC here who have been working on this interdepartmental working group. It's been probably about a year that we've had this together. Representatives from all of the departments that I noted in my remarks are present on that group, and we do consult as well with outside stakeholders.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It's not really clear yet what department will be looking at.... I'm not sure what your answer is. You don't know yet, or you...?

[Rakesh Patry]

I think it would largely be our department that would come forward with the proposals of what the legislative option is that we should be looking at. When it comes to the political level of determining which minister would be responsible, I think that's a decision that would have to be taken at a higher level.

Certainly, at the officials level, we would probably be proposing the various models that would be available.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Political direction and political will play a huge factor in that, then.

In terms of legislation, you've talked little bit about what the status quo is right now, so we do understand the kinds of mechanisms and relationships that are in place in helping other governments, like when you mentioned Rana Plaza. Part of Canada's job, as I've seen, has been to form these relationships and help other governments build capacity so that they can enforce and have these regimes.

While we're helping other governments, what do you believe our government's role is when we have corporations that are working in jurisdictions where maybe those governments don't have the capacity to have that kind of oversight? Do you see that there is a real potential for us to level that playing field with framework? How have you seen it thus far in terms of status quo?

[Chris Moran]

As I noted we have a voluntary approach to this issue. Through the trade commissioner service we have 160 offices abroad. We're able to leverage the business relationships that Canadian companies have.

First, we are working directly with Canadian businesses to promote and provide them with advice on corporate social responsibility to promote the use, the uptake, and the meaningful application of the OECD guidelines and the standards in existence. But then we also have the opportunity, through the good offices we have established in those countries, to create networks for dialogue to have that conversation and to base it on the relationships we have as well, complemented by the business relationships that exist.

We bring together Canadian companies, NGOs, governments, and members of the community to promote that dialogue and pursue those good practices.

[Robert McDougall, Executive Director, South Asia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

The sustainability compact being carried out in Bangladesh that Mr. Patry mentioned is a good example of that kind of co-operative attitude. It's one in which we have gotten together with the Bangladeshi government; with other countries, such as the U.K., Australia, the U.S., the Netherlands, and individual EU countries; with two major groupings of buyers, one mostly from North America, one mostly from Europe; some NGOs; and the ILO to promote the acceptance of the Bangladeshi government of health and safety in their garment factories. This was after Rana Plaza.

We also have supplied development assistance funding to the sustainability compact to help factor in things like training, inspection regimes, improvements in health and safety, and as part of the package, we've also taken a strong advocacy position with other like-minded countries in urging Bangladesh not only to ascribe to the ILO conventions, including the one on child labour, but also to ensure they're being followed up. Implementation is always a somewhat separate process from signature.

This is the kind of collective, multi-functional approach we've been taking. This is an example I happen to know because I was high commissioner there and worked on it. To emphasize, it brings in the buyers, including several major Canadian buyers, not just in corporate social responsibility in bringing them in but also frankly because these are people whom the government and the factory owners will listen to because they're the buyers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

We're going to go to MP Khalid for a short question because, as I said, we need to adjourn and go in camera in about four minutes or so.

MP Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for coming today.

In the interest of keeping it short, I went to Ethiopia earlier this year to see directly how Canadian dollars for international development are impacting early childhood development in Ethiopia. I got to see that there is indeed positive impact when it comes to eradicating the root causes of child labour.

Is there a way you assess the impacts of our development dollars going to different countries working toward ending child labour? What does that impact assessment look like?

[Claude Beauséjour]

I can address this one, although maybe not that specifically.

I've mentioned the feminist international assistance policy. We're developing a policy suite for each of the six action areas of the policy with indicators for each to measure our work, so that every project is seen by a gender specialist and by other specialists I have in the room. Two of my specialists are child protection specialists to make sure the projects do no harm. Sometimes you think you're doing the right thing, but if you haven't looked at it holistically, as I was saying, there could be a situation where by enabling a woman to work, for instance, the husband or partner is not happy and it leads to gender-based violence because she's not there to take care of the children, if there's no other program dealing with a child.

There are indicators, and it's a consultative process. Whenever we prepare a project it's at least one or two years in the making to make sure that everyone is consulted and that things are measured at the beginning, middle, and end to ensure that those indicators are followed, including do no harm, including positive results for all involved.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

I have just one more short question with respect to the labour co-operation agreements that Canada has entered into. What are some of the challenges you face, first of all, entering into these agreements, and second, in enforcing them?

[Rakesh Patry]

On the negotiation side of it and entering into the agreements, depending on the country, there can sometimes be resistance to the idea of including labour or other types of social considerations in a trade agreement, so we do have to explain our position that, for us and for Canada, there is a linkage between trade and labour, that it's important to ensure that labour rights not be derogated in the interest of benefiting trade, and that we do see linkage and a balance between them.

In terms of the enforcement of it, again in many of the countries we have agreements with, there are capacity issues and that's why as part of our labour co-operation agreements or labour provisions in trade agreements, we have a small technical assistance program that allows us to work with those countries in building capacity and improving labour inspections and promoting knowledge around issues like freedom of association or child labour, for example. It can be a challenge in terms of having the resources, but also in terms of working with both governments and NGOs in those countries, and in building that capacity and that awareness.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Do you think they're effective?

[Rakesh Patry]

We have in fact recently concluded an internal evaluation around the effectiveness of the programs, and we have found them to be effective.

When you're dealing with an issue like child labour, it's obviously difficult to measure the effectiveness of it because it's such a long-term goal that you're aiming for. When you look at the results of the programs we've run over the last few years, we can point to tangible improvements in situations on the ground in those partner countries, particularly around issues of core labour rights in things like child labour, non-discrimination, freedom of association, and forced labour.

We have seen significant improvement in most of the countries we work with.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

I would like to thank all of our witnesses and their entourages today. This was very useful as a closing segment for our study.

With that, I'm going to call for us to go in camera, please.

[Proceedings continue in camera]