Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 23rd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Colleagues, we're going to get started.

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 14 of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights. Today we meet to hear from Minister Ng and a number of other witnesses in view of our study of the role of the Canadian ombudsperson for responsible enterprise.

To ensure an orderly meeting I would encourage all participants to mute their microphones when not speaking and address all comments through the chair. When you have 30 seconds left in your question time I'll signal you with this paper, so you can stay on track.

Interpretation is available through the globe icon on the bottom of your screen. Please note that screen captures or photos are not permitted.

I'd now like to welcome our witness for the first panel, the Honourable Mary Ng, Minister of International Trade. She is accompanied by the following officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development: Sara Wilshaw, chief trade commissioner and assistant deputy minister, international business development, investment and innovation; and Chris Moran, director general, trade portfolio strategy and coordination.

Welcome to our subcommittee, Minister Ng. It's great to have you here. I am going to invite you now to give us your opening statement and then we'll move to members for questions.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Minister of International Trade]

Good afternoon to you, to the vice-chairs and to all of the members on this committee.

It is really a pleasure to be with you to assist this committee in its important work and to speak to Canadians about our government's commitment to responsible business conduct, in particular, the establishment of the office of the Canadian ombudsperson for responsible enterprise, or CORE.

Canada's reputation abroad is important. When our businesses are expanding globally, they represent Canada. Canadians and citizens around the world expect our businesses to uphold high standards for human rights, to operate with integrity and to demonstrate our strong values. Our country's international reputation is a competitive advantage. This is something Canadians take pride in and something they expect from Canadian leaders, from our institutions and from companies in all sectors.

The Government of Canada is here to help ensure Canadian companies uphold high standards of human rights and responsible business conduct. I am pleased that many companies do want our help. If companies do not meet the standards we expect from them, we have tools to help hold them accountable.

The CORE is part of the suite of supports that are available to Canadian businesses to help them expand and grow around the world.

In line with our other international objectives—a feminist foreign policy, ambitious climate action targets and an inclusive international trade agenda that everyone can benefit from—the CORE is a complement to the other important tools like the national contact point and amendments to the customs tariffs to prevent Canada from importing goods made with forced labour.

The CORE is a complement to a comprehensive set of policies that we have in place to address responsible business conduct for Canadian companies. It is not alone in its efforts and works in concert with other programs and supports to advance our expectations for responsible business conduct.

Our government is committed to working with Canadian companies to provide them with the guidance and the tools needed to make responsible business conduct a cornerstone of their business practices. In 2018, we announced the CORE. It was the first office of its kind in the world and part of our whole-of-government approach towards responsible business conduct.

What is so unique about the CORE is that this office is specifically built to address human rights issues through both preventative and dispute resolution approaches. The CORE promotes international guidelines and responsible business [Technical difficulty—Editor], advises them on their practices and policies, investigates complaints and provides dispute resolution.

For the last 18 months, the CORE has been doing the necessary work to build capacity and to hold public consultations, leading to last week when—I am pleased to share—the office officially launched its complaints intake portal and can now formally accept complaints. This is an important step to making the CORE [Technical difficulty—Editor].

I would like to outline the tools and resources at the CORE's disposal.

The CORE works with complainants and companies to find solutions through investigations, discussion and mediation. It can undertake this work either jointly or independently. Throughout the process, the CORE is empowered to report publicly.

The CORE can investigate allegations of human rights abuses arising from Canadian mining, oil and gas, and garment companies operating abroad. It has its own budget and staff and advises me directly. When it does, it can propose the imposition of trade measures, including the withdrawal of government support.

If a company refuses to work with the CORE in good faith during the review of a case, the CORE has the tools at their disposal—including the ability to report publicly—to speak directly with companies and to recommend the imposition of trade measures against that company.

Beyond this, the CORE proactively advises companies on how to uphold responsible business conduct.

This is a significant set of tools.

Our government takes human rights and responsible business conduct very seriously. We're committed to working with the CORE as she fulfills her mandate.

The purpose of CORE is to find solutions that help advance Canada’s commitments to responsible business conduct and human rights. The outcome we are all striving towards is better human rights outcomes, and the CORE is one tool in our responsible business conduct strategy that can help all of us advance that goal.

With that, I'm very happy to answer any questions that you have for me.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Minister, for those comments.

We're now going to proceed to members for questions. We'll commence with Ms. Iqra Khalid from the Liberals for seven minutes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, it's wonderful to have you here today. I know that you've been very engaged with this file and with a lot of the challenges in general with respect to how Canadian corporations operate internationally and their relationships in the places where they operate.

I wonder if you can kind of guide us through where the CORE fits in within that whole framework that we as a government may have in place in terms of holding corporations to account or ensuring that labour codes and human rights, for example, are being respected in host countries where Canadian corporations operate.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I will perhaps set a bit of a context. CORE is a very important tool, but it's a tool among a suite of policy tools that this government has deployed from day one, whether it is a feminist international policy or an inclusive approach to trade that has people at the very core of it. Companies must respect environmental protection and sustainability and good governance, and they must ensure that there is an adherence to strong labour rights. We've negotiated that into agreements, but it is how we are operating and how we are creating that right, that framework, for Canadian businesses to operate abroad.

The CORE is unique; it is the first of its kind. Its mandate is one where it reports directly to me as the minister, while the ombudsperson can do promotion and prevention, which is really important. When I take a step back and I think about all of the work that we're trying to do helping Canadian businesses operating globally, we want Canadian companies to be good actors on the international stage. We want them to respect high values and high standards for human rights. We want them to operate with integrity. We want them to operate with ethical standards, and we want them to have codified policies and procedures in their organization that include responsible business conduct. We want companies that will respect local law, companies that have good governance, good accountability, and at the very heart, companies that create lasting benefits for their employees, their customers and the society in which they operate.

This point about promotion and prevention is a very important part of the CORE's work in addition to the work that I've just already described, which is is the ability to initiate and conduct independent fact-finding.

Like I said, the complaint process is now open. The CORE is empowered to report publicly and, throughout the stage of her investigation, she's able to promote and prevent, and that's what we want. We want companies to respect responsible business conduct and to carry that through where they operate around the world. We also want to give that ability to have remedy through dispute resolution and through the CORE's fact-finding and investigative capabilities.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks very much, Minister.

As I'm sure you may be aware, we've heard testimony from other witnesses here at this committee about concerns and criticisms around the lack of teeth, you could say, to this ombudsperson and their inability to have.... Well, they don't have judicial mechanisms to operate.

You have stated that you're confident in the CORE and that these non-judicial mechanisms can have their own benefits. Can you expand on that, please?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Absolutely. When this office was set up, the model, as you will know, is set out in an order in council. When I was appointed minister, I took a look at that order in council, and the mandate was clear. The office was in the process of being operational. I asked the CORE to establish the office and to implement the OIC as published. I believe the CORE has the tools and the instruments she needs to be an effective mechanism for human rights abroad. Ms. Meyerhoffer herself testified before this committee and stated that she had the necessary powers and resources and tools to be effective.

I have full confidence in the work that Ms. Meyerhoffer will be doing. As I said, now that the complaints process is open, she will be able to take those in. As with any program, we want to give it the time and focus to do the very important work that the CORE is now embarking on.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks for that, Minister.

Just like in previous governments we've had the corporate social responsibility counsellor, we have the NCP. How do they differ from what the CORE is today?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

That is a very important question. This position is unique. It is unique because it is promoting international guidelines to Canadian businesses. It's advising them on practices and policies. It has a five-year term that is not “at the pleasure of” but rather “on good behaviour”, and is therefore distanced in a way that allows her to freely report and investigate and then make those recommendations to me. This office is resourced. It is empowered with the resources and the mandate and the tools for her to do this job.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We will now move to the Conservatives.

Mr. Chiu, you have seven minutes, please.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Chair,

Thank you for coming, Minister.

I'd like to follow up on the last question. The NCP, the national contact point, seems to have a similar mandate. Canada has an NCP, for example, under the OECD development guidelines for multinational enterprise that oversees the implementation of the guidelines by Canadian companies. The NCP is responsible for, “responding to enquiries and facilitating dialogue and mediation for all sectors and a wide range of issues, including, labour issues, human rights, environmental issues and bribery”.

It seems to me that there is significant overlap. Given that the CORE also promotes such similar practices as responsible business conduct and facilitating mediation, why does Canada need a second office that does similar work?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

It's very good to see you, my honourable colleague. I hope one day that we will all be able to be together again, once we're beyond COVID.

You're absolutely right that the NCP is a very important tool. It does work with and complement the CORE. What the NCP cannot do that the CORE can do is initiate complaints when they are brought forward. The NCP does not make public findings on the matters they undertake in the same way the CORE does. The CORE can take on fact-finding and investigative matters and is able to report publicly at any stage. The CORE has a measure of independence and is able to conduct its work with companies and with the complainants and do the work of dispute resolution between the parties.

I'll draw us back to why it's an important tool and what it is that I believe we all want. We all want Canadian companies to be good actors globally. We want to provide them with the tools that are necessary to help them with prevention of dysfunction, under the leadership of Ms. Meyerhoffer, who was appointed after an open, transparent, and merit-based process, and who has excellent experience. I have every confidence in her background and skill set and her ability to carry out the work as the ombudsperson for responsible enterprises.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

When we heard from the ombudsperson herself the last time, she did indicate that the government had backtracked and was not fully supportive of the CORE during its formation.

Can you confirm that? Why was that the case? Was there a second thought, perhaps, because of the overlapping mandates of the NCP and the CORE?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

On the contrary, I have been supportive of the CORE and of Ms. Meyerhoffer from day one of my appointment in this role as the international trade minister.

At the time of my appointment, I did review the order in council, and the mandate for this position was clear. The office was in the process of becoming operational, so I asked her to establish the office and to implement the OIC as it was published. I believe she has the tools and the instruments she needs to be an effective mechanism for human rights.

The purpose of the CORE and the national contact point mechanisms are indeed to find solutions to bring about responsible business conduct and to bring about that change. As Ms. Meyerhoffer herself said, she believes she has the necessary powers, resources and tools to be effective.

I am very supportive of this work. This office is resourced as well. It has a mandate. It has the resources and the tools, and I'm very confident in Ms. Meyerhoffer's background and capability. Now that the complaint system is up, she is ready to also do that part of the work.

I want to thank her for the tremendous work over the last year in meeting with over 200 stakeholders from civil society groups to industry to stand up this very important office.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

You mentioned the mandate. Can you share with us whether the government currently has plans to expand this mandate for the CORE or perhaps expand the investigatory powers of the CORE, and if so, how?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

That's really important.

The focus for us right now is to ensure that the CORE takes on its work and begins that very important work. They are now able to take on complaints and they have been working with stakeholders to get input on their work. She is focused on the work of promoting, preventing, and having the tools of remedy.

I'm very encouraged and have full confidence in her work. Of course, as with any new program, we can always review it once it has had sufficient time to operate and we see the results that it is bringing in. Right now we're very focused on the CORE doing the work it is mandated to do.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're moving now to Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe from the Bloc, for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank everyone, Minister Ng, witnesses and colleagues, for joining us this evening.

We're addressing an important topic. This topic directly affects the pride of many people. Their feelings about Canadian companies doing business abroad are normal, and we understand them.

Unfortunately, I'm sure that you'll agree that some companies bring dishonour to that sense of pride. Some troubling reports and evidence point to questionable and even criminal practices by companies that take advantage of their status without regard for the human beings who live where they do business.

Minister Ng, am I wrong in saying that some Canadian companies are committing acts right now that would be completely unacceptable here on Canadian soil?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

It's wonderful to see you, Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe.

It is really important to note, and you've said this, that it is a pride of Canada to have our wonderful companies abroad working globally. I'm proud that we have so many of these extraordinary companies. However, at the same time, it is important that companies are held to account by the high standards of respecting human rights, operating with integrity and operating with ethical standards. Companies represent Canada when they are abroad, and Canadians expect them to embody those values while they operate. This function is another tool to hold companies to account, but also to help companies be good corporate citizens abroad.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's fine. Your response is politically correct, but it doesn't answer my question, Minister Ng.

Do you agree that companies are currently committing acts that would be completely unacceptable here?

The answer to my question may be a simple yes or no.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We need to ensure that Canadian companies operating abroad absolutely respect human rights and that they bear the standards for good responsible business conduct. This tool will help them achieve that [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Unfortunately, there was a small interpretation issue at the end, but I think that it has now been resolved.

I want to tell you, Minister Ng, that people are being murdered and activities are disappearing. There's environmental pollution and corruption. All these events have been observed around the world, in South America and the Philippines, among other places. I'll try to rephrase my question.

Do you deny that Canadian companies are currently committing acts that would be completely unacceptable here?

Do you deny that Canadian companies are currently committing crimes that would be completely unacceptable here?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Canadian companies must be held accountable. Canadian companies must have high standards for human rights. They must operate with responsible business conduct. We have tools—certainly through this mechanism—to withdraw services to these companies and withhold funding from an important agency like Export Development Canada.