Evidence of meeting #15 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was core.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Yes, the clerk has been checking.
Clerk, could you give us a brief 30-seconder on why this is happening?
7:10 p.m.
The Clerk
We don't fully know why it's happening.
It has happened before to other committees in other rooms. There's no known solution for it, other than to have people speak slowly and clearly and, if necessary, have them repeat part of their statement or question. This applies especially if anyone is reading off a piece of text. Then especially, speak slowly and clearly.
I'll be following up on this. Hopefully, it will stop occurring.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you. We'll try again.
I guess the best practice is just to speak slowly and clearly and into the mike.
7:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Okay.
Was I speaking or was MP Reid speaking at that point?
7:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Okay.
I think what I was saying was that there's a difference between a private individual suing a corporation for violations in Canadian courts for something that happened in Eritrea and, say, Canada bringing a claim against Eritrea for a violation, an erga omnes violation, for example.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I wasn't wondering so much about whether it was completely brought against Eritrea, because from our perspective as Canadian policy-makers who are trying to influence the actions of Canadian companies headquartered in Canada or traded on Canadian stock exchanges, what happens in terms of the liability of the country in which the extraction is taking place is not going to incentivize in the same way that it would if Canada itself were the defendant. It would have a different effect.
You can see what I'm getting at here, I think.
7:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I'm not quite sure I understand what—
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
What I am getting at is this. If we want to create a situation in which Canada changes the rules under which its corporations operate, then it makes sense for Canada to be the one that is potentially suable for allowing its corporations to act in a manner that is unacceptable. Does that not make sense?
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Reid, thank you. I did add additional time for the time we had to take out—
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
In all fairness, Mr. Chair, you added 30 seconds. I have a timer, and that took more than two minutes.
If you don't mind, can you let her give the answer to my question?
7:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Okay.
I guess I'm still not.... You're saying that if Canada regulates its corporations...?
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
No. I'm saying that if it can be structured so that Canada itself....
There are two participants here in terms of nations. There is Canada, the headquarters for extractive companies, and there is the country in which the activities take place. A situation in which the liability is only on the country in which the extraction takes place leaves Canada, or any other country that is headquartering a company, essentially free from the kinds of remedies that can be sought out. We're the country that has the functioning legal system. That's what I'm getting at.
7:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Right. I think, then, the onus is on us, and actually we have obligations under international human rights law to regulate our corporations and provide effective remedies. I don't think it's a question, if I understand you correctly, of somehow bringing a claim against Canada. I mean, that could happen at the international level, and I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I think if a corporation is operating somewhere, then they can be liable for violations of human rights.
I'm looking at the chair to see if I am okay to continue.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you very much for that, Professor. It's much appreciated.
7:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
No problem.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would very much like to get five minutes every time just like Mr. Reid.
Ms. Simons, you gave us an overview earlier of Canada's human rights obligations when it comes to Canadian businesses operating abroad. Could you specify what those obligations are?
7:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It's an obligation to ensure that companies that are operating within Canada's jurisdiction are not making decisions and taking actions that can have...or that through subsidiaries are violating the human rights of people in other countries.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I apologize, but I did not hear the interpretation from the beginning. Could you repeat your answer?
I am really sorry. I speak English, but I want to comply with the Official Languages Act.
7:15 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Chair, let's reset the clock. I will ask my question again.
Earlier, you gave us an overview of Canada's human rights obligations when it comes to Canadian businesses operating abroad. Could you clarify what obligations you were talking about, please?
7:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I am talking about Canada's obligations to exercise due diligence to ensure that Canadian companies operating in other countries do not violate human rights while they are operating abroad. Canadian companies make decisions. They do a lot of things. Their subsidiaries or their contractors may violate human rights in another country.