Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 4th, 2021

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It's well beyond time, absolutely.

One of the things when we're looking at human rights abuses.... Having that freedom of press is so vital, is so important.

Mr. Goodman, you mentioned in your opening statement that journalists, both local and international, are being silenced. Of course, that is a very dangerous thing to see happen.

Can you talk about how the Canadian government can support local and international journalists at this time to ensure that those stories are continuing to be told?

[Sam Goodman]

I think, first and foremost, we're seeing it, as I mentioned, in two different spheres. We're seeing, really, an attack on foreign journalists via the weaponization of visas and the banning of certain foreign news agencies, like the BBC. You saw the New York Times announce that it's relocating its offices to Seoul. I think that we're going to see a lot more of that in the years to come. Local journalists are really taking the brunt of the assault on the freedom of press.

Canada really can step in more, I think, and do more for local journalists. It was good to see a statement from the Foreign Correspondents' Club last week about the fining of Bao Choy, but I do think that the Canadian government should be putting out firmer statements and really calling on China to respect freedom of press in Hong Kong, along with like-minded partners.

However, that doesn't go nearly far enough. I think, fundamentally, the assault on the press goes hand in hand with the assault on the pro-democracy movement. Fundamentally, there's really only one way to answer that. I guess eventually it circles back to this argument about targeted sanctions against the perpetrators of these abuses, the Hong Kong officials.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Absolutely.

I'm going to ask some more questions about those sanctions, perhaps in my next round, but I'd also like to get more information about the incoming August 1 immigration law that we know can bar people, including Canadians, from leaving Hong Kong. I have so many concerns about that, so many worries.

Perhaps I could ask the Alliance Canada Hong Kong representatives, Hong Kong Watch or even Mr. Chan this: What does the role of Canada look like? What has it been so far? What do we need to see? What are those things that Canada needs to do going forward?

I'm happy to start with you, Mr. Goodman, because you're on my screen.

[Sam Goodman]

I think, first and foremost, Canada needs to look at expanding its lifeboat scheme for Hong Kongers, particularly for young Hong Kongers who are not graduates and who need a lifeline out of the city and do not qualify for the U.K.'s BNO visa scheme. That should be first and foremost.

Second of all, the Canadian government needs to closely monitor what's happening with the immigration bill and make sure that if there is a restriction of freedom of movement out of the city, it's ready to go beyond sanctions, working with the U.S., U.K. and European partners.

The U.S. restricted trade to the Soviet Union because it restricted freedom of movement in the cold war. It's something similar to consider if China decided to restrict freedom of movement out of the city of Hong Kong.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Very quickly, Ms. Lau, do you have anything you'd like to add to that?

[Ai-Men Lau]

I'd be happy to connect after the testimony as well, but I would add travel documents for those known activists who are facing exit bans at the moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Great. Thank you.

We are moving into our second round. In looking at the time, I see that we're going to have about two and a half minutes for each of the members to ask questions.

We'll begin with MP Sidhu.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here and sharing their insights. It's very important.

Mr. Chan, you were cut off a couple of times due to a lack of time. I'd like to hear more from you and your thoughts. You said you came to Canada, I think, in 2017. You said that you were quite engaged in Hong Kong as a legislative councillor and have been involved for over 20 years, as you mentioned in your opening remarks.

I'd like to hear more from you about your lived experience being a legislative councillor. Please enlighten us.

[Albert Wai Yip Chan]

Hong Kong has been changing drastically in the past few years. When I left Hong Kong in 2017, I didn't expect that the situation would deteriorate so fast. Since 2019, the whole situation has changed. The Chinese paramilitary is actually present and took action in Hong Kong. Also, the overall administration changed.

Hong Kong is actually living in a state of state terrorism right now. The government can do virtually anything to violate human rights and to deprive people's basic rights. Three hundred thousand Canadians are actually living in quite difficult circumstances. All the... Basically, freedom of press is gone. Hong Kong is becoming a typical Chinese city.

When you look at Hong Kong right now, it's going to become just a Chinese city. You have to get the government's approval to report. You have to get the government's special approval to travel. If you look at Hong Kong from this angle, you will probably have a better understanding of the dire situation that Hong Kong people are facing right now.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Lau, you briefly touched on immigration pathways that should be created by the Government of Canada. You just had a sentence there. Do you want to add more to that?

[Ai-Men Lau]

Yes. I think I would add some of the recommendations that we have submitted as ACHK.

We want to also expand private sponsorship and family reunification measures. With regard to the private sponsorship as well, we have a really strong Hong Kong diaspora community and organizations that are informally already supporting asylum seekers here, so for the government to help collaborate and help legitimize some of those supports would be great.

Also, we should modernize and expedite the Canadian immigration and asylum system to address the backlog of new and pending claims. I think—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Lau. I'm sorry I had to cut you off.

[Ai-Men Lau]

No, that's okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're moving to MP Williamson.

Welcome to our subcommittee. You have about two and a half minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

I have two and a half minutes. I'm going to turn right away, then, to Mr. Chan.

Could you talk about the character of Hong Kongers? This could be a dark moment for some time. Do you expect that Hong Kongers will be resilient like the Poles were under the Soviets or like the Hungarians? How do you think Hong Kongers are going to respond to this threat from Communist China?

[Albert Wai Yip Chan]

I feel that Hong Kong people will fight to the end. I know so many of them. Many of them have been arrested, and some of them are in jail. They will defy the Communist rule to the very end. This is why I believe that international support, especially support from Canada, is extremely important.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

I'll turn now to Mr. Goodman.

Mr. Goodman, you touched on some ideas that I'm beginning to think we need to contemplate in terms of Beijing's unwillingness to respect rights and values we hold dear.

First of all, I think you've let Canada off a little easy, because while there are more British overseas nationals, Canada has more full-fledged passport holders in Hong Kong than any other country. We have a claim on the ground there with 300,000 Canadian citizens, full stop, whose rights cannot be upended because Beijing happens to say so or the Hong Kong government, for that matter.

In terms of our economic relationship with mainland China, what are your views on expelling China from the WTO? It doesn't live up to its pacts right now, its agreements, and on top of that, we are seeing these ongoing violations in other areas.

You have 30 seconds.

[Sam Goodman]

I think that, practically, it would be very hard to expel China from the WTO, but I agree with you. Looking back, I think it was a substantial mistake to allow China to join the WTO when we did. Economically, geopolitically and on a human rights basis, we're all paying for it. However, I do think there are serious questions to be asked now about Hong Kong's WTO membership as well. Beijing shouldn't just get the economic benefits of one country, two systems, while stripping away the political benefits and the freedoms that the people of Hong Kong have had under that model of governance.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. That was right on 30 seconds.

We're moving now to MP Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do not have much time, but I would like to reiterate all the admiration I have for the witnesses, whom I thank for joining us this evening.

Distinguished witnesses, you might be quoted in the committee's report. So I think it is important to hear who you think the perpetrators of the human rights abuses in Hong Kong are right now.

I know that Xi Jinping will be one of the people named, but would you like to name others?

[Ai-Men Lau]

Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam.

[Albert Wai Yip Chan]

And I think the Chinese members of the political bureau. They are all responsible and, I think, the ones who formulated the policy.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Goodman and Ms. Siu, do you want to add any other names?

[Joey Siu]

I think that we would also definitely recommend members of the National People's Congress, as they have voted to pass the national security legislation in Hong Kong and also a resolution to overhaul Hong Kong's electoral system.