Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 11th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Brunelle-Duceppe, you do not have the floor.

MP Brunelle-Duceppe, can you please respectfully mute your microphone?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, then you can—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Duceppe, please, respectfully, mute your microphone.

Actually, speaking about respect, it was respect for the witnesses who we had here today, respect for the members at this last minute to bring something like that forward that was very sensitive.

What I'm recommending to the members—and we'll see what the members have to say, because this committee works by consensus—is that in our next meeting we will carve out time in camera to be able to discuss this sensitive matter. That is what I am proposing to the members.

We have only a couple of minutes before we adjourn, and I'm asking the members for adjournment. It is 8:33 at this time.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, will you recognize Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe? If not, I would like to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I am recognizing Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe right now, yes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's too kind. I stopped listening to the interpretation so that we could have a quick exchange.

Mr. Chair, we just lost three minutes. We need to have a 10-minute discussion in camera. We are in public session and I don't want to talk about the situation facing us now because it would compromise someone's safety. I don't want that to be the case. I want us to have this debate in camera now. It's only going to take 10 minutes and everybody will be pleased that we talked about it.

I cannot believe that a human life is not worth 10 minutes of in camera discussion. That's all I have to say. I hope that all members of this subcommittee will understand the seriousness of the situation that we are dealing with and that they will all agree to continue in camera right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Brunelle-Duceppe—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It's the only thing to do.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

—I'm sorry for the interruption, but I'll let you know that it will take a while to go in camera. It will also take.... We have resources, we have interpreters, etc., who were not prepared for this, and we did have a consensus that we would not be doing this at the start of this meeting.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We are talking about a human life.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Brunelle-Duceppe, could you please respectfully mute your mike?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I cannot mute my microphone when we are talking about a human life.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We did not have consensus. I will move to MP McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I did flag this with the committee earlier today. We did have time to organize this. You did have time to substitute somebody for any member who wasn't able to stay.

Someone's life is on the line, and you're suggesting that we will discuss this in two weeks. We don't even have a committee meeting next week. This is two weeks from now. That is absolutely unacceptable.

This is somebody who came before our committee, and the risk to them because they did so is the responsibility we have to take on. To say that the 10 minutes or the 30 minutes or the hour it would take, frankly, is not worth our time, yet we can wait two weeks and ask this person to wait two weeks....

We either need to do something tonight or we need to have an emergency meeting set up tomorrow. I think it is unbelievable that you would even suggest that we would wait two full weeks to deal with this important emergency issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP McPherson, I looked to the members for consensus and I reached out to the members. What I've heard from the members is that doing this in camera is paramount for safety and security and that members had commitments right after this meeting today.

I will go to MP Chiu.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

MP McPherson said exactly what I wanted to say. If necessary, I think we need to consider calling an emergency meeting to handle this situation. In fact, way back when we were talking about the witnesses attending the Hong Kong studies, I asked the committee whether we could have something special to accommodate witnesses' identity and also concern for security, etc.

This is not entirely new. I would definitely think that between the Conservatives, the Bloc and the NDP, we are establishing a quick consensus, and I believe many of the members from the Liberals also are probably on side with us.

I'd like you to reconsider or maybe consider an alternative.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Chiu.

It's not for me but for the members to decide if there is consensus and also to speak with the clerk and look at what infrastructure is available, if interpretation is available and if resources are available to be able to do that.

I will move now to MP Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I thank the members for raising this issue, which we've discussed a number of times in the past. It's not an issue in this instance that we can discuss by quickly going in camera for 10 minutes. It takes a while to get in camera, and I do understand that we have a lot of other issues to discuss as well. We would benefit from a time set aside for this discussion.

I would propose that we set aside that extra time. We can carve it out in the very near future so that we can have that important discussion about the issues that are raised by members and also the issues that have been emailed by members by way of motions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Khalid. I know I have MP Reid. I will look to the clerk to find out if the resources are even available to be able to do this.

Go ahead, MP Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll try to be very brief.

The first thing I wanted to say is I am aware of the timing of Iftar. In fact, on my other computer screen, I have it up. It says Iftar is 8:34 tonight, and we are past 8:34, so I am respectful of that, and I think we all should be.

Having said that, and recognizing the difficulties that you and the clerks have in terms of lining up time, could we ask that you try to set up a meeting as soon as possible, as in looking for a time tomorrow, and if not tomorrow, then Thursday? I, for one, would be willing to accept a meeting at any time, and if I can't make it, I'll make sure to get a replacement for myself. I hope others can commit to the same thing. Having the meeting is really critically important, but I have faith in you to find the earliest possible time, if we make that request to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you very much, MP Reid, for that.

Yes, I do know members have commitments tonight to Ramadan Iftar. I'm going to talk with the clerk. We'll look to see what is available in terms of slots, and then if members are open, there may be something, even in the break week, that we will be able to find. Maybe resources are available, but, again, I don't know. I will have to look to the clerk and see what is available. I do know that members are sending me notes that they have to conclude and we need to adjourn.

I have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, don't worry, I took a deep breath and I will be calmer.

I am simply asking myself the question. You were aware of the situation and you knew that we wanted to talk about this today. Yesterday, we received communications from one particular organization. I talked to people who were concerned, who said they were afraid for one specific person—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, to do this right now in public and not in camera, as was set....

We just heard from some very courageous witnesses who have come before our committee right now from Colombia.

MP Brunelle-Duceppe, we gave them respectfully the time that we should have given them. This came at the last minute, and members do have commitments they have to get to, so Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, I would ask that you respect the members of the committee.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Why are you cutting me off? You know full well what I am talking about. Ms. McPherson communicated with you today.

I said I would calm down, but don't—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's right. MP Brunelle-Duceppe, that's right. Heather sent something at the last minute. It was last minute. What I'm saying—