Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Roy Gombiro]

Thank you, honourable member.

At the moment we understand that the Zimbabwean government has a strong hold on all the infrastructure, whether it's telecoms, the media or the national television, including the mobile networks. As far as we understand, it's a case of people being targeted when they try to protest together or bring awareness through social media. I think Ms. Tsitsi Gadza did speak to abductions, people being raped for being activists. You would think because of independence in journalism that reporters would be out of touch and out of reach, but the Zimbabwean government has been able to take Hopewell and put him in prison just for bringing light to the truth.

In response, I would say that the government is heavily involved in all the media platforms in Zimbabwe, which affect and bias the response from the Zimbabwean people.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. Gombiro.

I will turn to Ms. Gadza now, who is a constituent. I am very happy to have her here today.

Ms. Gadza, you had mentioned in one of your recommendations that it is prudent for the Government of Canada to connect with NGOs operating on the ground directly instead of with the Government of Zimbabwe with respect to providing aid. Can you outline for us the restrictions or the ability to mobilize for NGOs on the ground? What is their situation like, as they try to fill in the gaps with respect to food security, water, sanitation, etc.?

[Tsitsi Gadza]

Thank you, honourable member.

From my experience as a UNICEF employee back when I was in Zimbabwe, UNICEF was a non-governmental organization, but there were also ties to the government. Any program that we ran through UNICEF, be it education, health or water and sanitation, had to be channelled through government.

In this case, given that the government itself is corrupt, that's why we're proposing that we have Canadian international development agencies that would be accountable to the Canadian government. If funding is provided through non-government organizations, the onus is on those organizations to work with the government in place, but the Canadian international development agencies are accountable to the Canadian government, so we are confident that this channel would facilitate delivery and distribution of the services that we're asking for to alleviate the poverty and the situation in Zimbabwe.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much for that, Ms. Gadza.

Ms. Kujeke, I'll turn to you next.

You outlined a lot about the history and the context of what is happening in Zimbabwe. I'll ask you this. Over the past number of years, what has the international response been like?

I know one of the recommendations is to involve the international community, including the United Nations, to raise awareness and to condemn the actions that are happening in Zimbabwe. Could you outline for us what measures have been taken over the past and in what ways a condemnation would impact what is happening on the ground in Zimbabwe?

[Makanaka Kujeke]

Thank you, honourable member.

As noted in the background, there has been radio silence from neighbouring countries, such as Zambia, South Africa and Botswana, on the situation in Zimbabwe regarding all failures, including health care systems, food and water security and the economic crisis.

There has been aid provided by the United Nations World Food Programme. Currently they do support 20 regions and they're able to reach approximately 550,000 Zimbabweans, but compared to the 2.2 million we discussed earlier who are food and water insecure, it's a very small percentage of the population. We believe that condemning the current state of affairs, especially when it comes to the basic necessities of food and water, would allow the international community to recognize the severity of especially the food crisis in Zimbabwe. As the UN WFP has mentioned, we're approaching 3.3 million who will be on the brink of starvation, which is a very significant amount of the population itself.

We feel that highlighting and condemning what is going on in Zimbabwe would allow for at least a responsibility, in part, by the government, if anything else, to know that the international community does care about Zimbabwe and the state of its citizens.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Are there any comments, very quickly, on the role of the African Union with Zimbabwe?

[Makanaka Kujeke]

The African Union has also turned a blind eye to the situation in Zimbabwe. I was involved previously, but as the crises have become worse, Zimbabwe has very much gone from, as the expression has been used, the bread basket to a basket case. That's felt across the African Union and in many countries globally.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much for that, Ms. Kujeke.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Now we will move to Mr. Reid from the Conservatives.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Maybe I will start with Ms. Kujeke also.

With regard to the African Union, what is the reason for that approach? Is it just that it has come to the conclusion that Zimbabwe is so badly misgoverned that there's no point in trying, or is there something else that's at the heart of that motivation to just stand by and do nothing?

[Makanaka Kujeke]

Thank you, honourable member.

I believe that is the case. I believe that the resistance by Zimbabwe to any previous attempts to assist it when it was in a better state have led to a scaled-back approach in the assistance that the African Union provides.

Given that many of the countries within the African Union earned their independence, I think there's also a need to provide them with that feeling of being independent, that feeling of being sovereign states, which they are. When there's resistance, I believe the African Union will never force itself onto any nation, and so it has really stepped back and allowed the situation to unfold the way it has. There haven't been any repercussions from neighbouring countries or from the union as a whole.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

What about the Commonwealth as an alternative international forum? I understand the concerns that come from Africa's heritage as a colonized continent, a very exploited continent, but the Commonwealth does contain a number of significant players who are also African, and it seems to me that this, combined with a high degree of respect for concepts like the rule of law, might cause this to be another international venue that might be more helpful.

I would also add that I can't help but notice that your own organization appears to have a very high degree of support from people who are following it in the United Kingdom, including a number of very prominent people there, which suggests that there's a high degree of interest already in Zimbabwe in at least that part of the Commonwealth.

[Makanaka Kujeke]

Thank you once again, honourable member.

May I also include my witness and other panellists in order to best answer your question?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Yes. That's a good idea. I don't know to whom to address these questions, because I'm not sure who has the expertise, so they are for whoever is best suited.

Is that Ms. Gadza? I think I see you waving.

[Tsitsi Gadza]

Yes. Thank you, honourable member. I will chime in.

Zimbabwe was once a member of the Commonwealth but has since been kicked out of the Commonwealth, which is why the Commonwealth is maintaining an arm's-length distance from Zimbabwe when it comes to the situation there.

With regard to the African Union, there's that feeling of brotherhood to the extent that for any other country within Africa, even if it's going through turmoil, unless its situation is being condemned by the outside world, it will just stay mum about the situation. It's not like the African Union has not heard about the fatalities and the human rights violations in Zimbabwe. It has, but it chooses to turn a blind eye.

A good example would be how the African Union was vocal when there was police brutality in the U.S. in the summer. This same brutality is going on in front of its eyes in Zimbabwe, but it chooses not to comment or say anything about it. It picks and chooses what it wants to talk about and what it wants to highlight. If it's a case of other countries suffering and being reduced to poverty to the same extent that Zimbabwe has been, it is okay with that.

That's our approach. That's how we feel.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Is that part of the reason for the name #ZimLivesMatter—to make the point that police brutality is equally awful regardless of where the victims are located geographically?

[Tsitsi Gadza]

You're absolutely correct, honourable member, because any life matters. It doesn't matter if it's a Zimbabwean, an American or a northern African—any life matters.

In this particular case we're trying to maintain the same process that has been carried on around the world today. Every life matters, but in this case in particular, the reference to Zimbabwe is that they face exactly the same police brutality and are experiencing the same fatalities that any other nation is experiencing globally.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Gombiro, maybe I should ask you the next question.

Looking at the issue of inflation in Zimbabwe, this is not the first time this has happened. Everybody is familiar with the hyperinflation that took place about a decade ago. At the end of that process—perhaps it was 2013—the government made the decision to move to the United States dollar as the currency. Then in May or June of 2019, the Zimbabwean dollar was reintroduced, and almost instantly there was massive inflation, which seems to be getting worse and worse.

Why did they go back to the Zimbabwean dollar? Is the problem identical to what happened last time—they're just printing more and more money—or is something else going on?

[Roy Gombiro]

Honourable member, thank you for that question.

It's twofold, as far as I want to believe and understand.

Number one is that when we switched from the Zimbabwean dollar to the U.S. dollar, the U.S. dollar is predominantly what countries trade in. Because there's no production and no manufacturing, the only way the Zimbabwean government can transact with other countries—whether it's the E.U. or World Bank—to pay off their debts is through the U.S. dollar. When they print money, they are printing money so that they can buy the hard currency that's on the black market. That's why you see the see-saw policies that have no foresight and have no concern for the people of Zimbabwe. It's just in terms of self-enrichment for the political elite, the senior government officials.

That's what we believe is happening. You will likely see a change if we don't start acting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Reid. That's the time.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We'll move over the the Bloc and Ms. Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for their testimonies, which truly confirm the gravity of the situation in Zimbabwe.

The UN itself says that hunger is a threat to national security in many countries, especially in your own.

Could you tell us more about the Zimbabwean community in Canada? I am interested because, as we know, individuals on the regime's payroll are intimidating other diaspora communities online and even in person.

Since your voice is important to your community, I'd like to know if you or any of your fellow Zimbabweans have been pressured. If so, could you tell us about it? Are spying and violence against Zimbabwean nationals really common practices?

[Roy Gombiro]

I'm sorry, honourable member, was that for any one of us or—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

My apologies, Mr. Gombiro. I forgot to specify to whom my question was addressed. Any of you can answer it, as it concerns all nationals.

I'd like to know if you or anyone you know have been treated like that.