Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I wanted to thank both of you for being here today, sharing your testimony with us and informing us of what's happening in Venezuela and to displaced people from Venezuela.

I just want to zoom out for a moment and ask about the political situation and what has led to the current crisis. Can you give us a brief thumbnail sketch of what's actually been happening recently to lead to this? That's number one.

For number two, I'd like to ask you about the impacts of COVID in the context of the political situation. Could you walk us through the very recent political situation and how that has changed, if it has changed at all, because of COVID?

[Gabi Garcia]

COVID is like a weapon for the government. They use the COVID situation to repress and control the population. They even control the food and the gas. Everything is about the sanctions from the United States. We may have a lot of gas for a few months, but there are long lines of people.

Everything is about how it's not their fault as a Venezuelan government; it's the fault of the sanctions. They use the COVID situation for new, special laws that they apply to the economy. They use it for themselves to control the population. This is a fact.

For a time, it's may become more difficult to control the migrants. They don't say anything about the migrants. For them, that problem doesn't exist. It's only in the minds of the people who fled Venezuela; in Venezuela, everybody is happy. Everybody has food. This is their point of view.

For them, I think that they're getting stronger because they have motivation and some excuse for controlling the population.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I understand.

Ms. Jimenez, can you please also answer that question?

[Dr. Carolina Jimenez]

I agree with Ms. Garcia very much on the issue of control. A lot of reports from the UN and from international human right organizations have expressly documented the policy of social control the government exercises when it comes to controlling food distribution, access to health, etc. It is a way of controlling people.

Many reasons would perhaps explain why Venezuela is in this dire situation. As a human rights organization, of course, we point to the state's responsibility. I think the repressive nature of the government implies that it is very difficult for citizens to express themselves, to demand changes or even to propose changes, so the crisis basically recycles itself.

I do have to say, as I mentioned in my presentation, that it is not every day a UN independent commission establishes that crimes against humanity have been committed in a country. A fact-finding mission on Venezuela has said so. That is something for history.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Certainly.

You both have spoken about the situation that is impacting women and girls in a unique way. Is there anything you want to add to that? Do you want to share with the committee anything in addition to what you've already said in terms of the crisis impacting women and girls?

[Gabi Garcia]

It's not only women and girls, as Carolina said. There is always human trafficking of organs. Children are very affected by this.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

You have about 15 seconds if you want to add to that.

[Dr. Carolina Jimenez]

I think we often overlook the way in which the crisis impacts women and girls when it comes to sexual and reproductive health. Early pregnancy and many other things, such as the lack of access to contraception, are affecting women in a very negative way. Many have to flee because of the lack of health services for women specifically.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thanks to you both.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.

Welcome to our committee, Mr. Van Popta. It's good to have you here. You now have a five-minute opportunity to question the witnesses.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you very much for welcoming me to the committee. I'm looking forward to working with you today.

Thank you very much, Ms. Jimenez and Ms. Garcia, for being with us and telling us about this human rights crisis in Venezuela and parts of Central America.

You talked about some of the work that is being done effectively by NGOs and humanitarian organizations. Ms. Jimenez also talked about what really amounts to a crisis, and that is the human trafficking of women and girls. Are there any NGOs or humanitarian organizations that are focusing on that work and working effectively in that field?

That is for either one of you, but perhaps we'll start with Ms. Jimenez.

[Dr. Carolina Jimenez]

As I said, I think one problem around human trafficking is how much is unknown about it because of the nature of the crime itself. It's mainly done through deceit and through coercion. It involves actors who work at hiding themselves, etc.

There are, of course, organizations working on this, but working on this issue often implies security risks—for lawyers, for NGOs, for people who run shelters, for victims and so on. It is not a field of work where you have too many actors, precisely because of the nature of human trafficking. The UN has some working groups. There are NGOs in most of the host countries. However, I think the tremendous lack of information impacts the way people work on this issue. I think commissioning a very good diagnosis, one that could identify what the key problems are and what the key solutions could be, is still much needed.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I can understand that. Without diagnosing the problem, it's hard to come up with a solution. Could Canada, perhaps, be doing more work in that field?

[Gabi Garcia]

Yes, maybe, because I think they don't have enough money even for the NGO that works in this field.... As Carolina said, it's a problem that is always under the carpet.

In a lot of these women's cases, even in Trinidad last week and in the Caribbean, we know the problem is very heavy. There is stigmatization. They say Venezuelan migrant women maybe work in prostitution, because it's easy, or maybe because they have to do it.

I don't think that a lot of NGOs are working with these problems. This situation is all very confused.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I understand that.

Ms. Garcia, tell me about some of the other NGOs that are not just working with refugees outside of Venezuela but also working to manage poverty within Venezuela, and about the relationship of NGOs to the government.

[Gabi Garcia]

For the government, they see the NGOs as their competition. There is no link between government and the NGOs. They are totally apolitical, independent. There are a lot of low-profile people who work in Venezuela. You don't hear about them, but it's a lot of good social work, working with food insecurity, working with medicine. They send it. For example, medicine from the United States or Canada is transported in boxes directly to the doctors in the hospital, not to the hospital director or coordinator, because most of the time, they are political, with a political party. The doctor who has received the medicine directly for the patient can work with that.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I don't know which of the two of you said this, but it was to the effect that the best solution is to get people to stay in Venezuela. Of course, that's going to require safety and security, economically and politically. I'm very interested in the work that some of these NGOs are doing underground—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Van Popta; your time is up.

Now we'll move to the Bloc and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for five minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We will come back to this, Mr. Van Popta.

I will go off the beaten path, but don't feel like you have to answer the question directly if you don't want to.

When we looked at the situation, my team and I told ourselves that the support of Canada and many countries to self-appointed president Mr. Guaido has not led to the hoped-for political transition. We all agree on that.

Do you think Canada should continue supporting Mr. Guaido, or should we look for other ways to encourage the respect of human rights in Venezuela?

I would understand if you would rather not answer this question, but there it is.

[Gabi Garcia]

Juan Guaidó is the president of the National Assembly. The National Assembly is the last institution elected by the people. It's the last institution that we have as a legal entity. Right now, this Sunday, there is going to be a new election, but it's a fraud. They will just put in the winner.

I think it's important that Canada support Guaidó because he represents the legal representative of Venezuela. It's important because if we have political unity in the opposition and everything.... I don't know the political way to fire Maduro, but it's important to know that Guaidó is not self-proclaimed. He's elected. He's the president of the National Assembly, so he is legally the president, if you don't recognize the Maduro election—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand what you are saying.

Okay.

[Gabi Garcia]

In political ways, he's making good work. He tries his best in the worst conditions that we have in our country.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Did you want to add anything, Ms. Jimenez?

[Dr. Carolina Jimenez]

Thank you.

Amnesty International does not take a position on this complex issue of two governments, etc. What we do demand is an end to political repression. All citizens, including members of the opposition, should be able to freely exercise their right to hold public office, etc.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Great.

If it's okay with you, let's stay in the political sphere.

What impact do you think the actions of Grupo de Lima, of which Canada is a member, have had on the situation on the ground, in Venezuela, in terms of the respect for human rights?