Evidence of meeting #13 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ethiopia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you for that, Ms. Embaye and Mr. Sidhu. That was very pithy and full of great information.
We will continue on to Mr. Viersen from the Conservative Party, please, for four minutes.
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am still trying to go back to history. History is a line that we've travelled down. This conflict seems to have started back at the beginning of 2020. There were a series of events that led up to that.
What will resolve that underlying conflict? It seems to me that is what we have to get to, because we have the humanitarian crisis, which is urgent and pressing, and the need to send in food and things like that is there. Perhaps from the Tigrayan side, what is the resolution to this situation locally?
I'll start with Kidane.
7:40 p.m.
As an Individual
In order to have a resolution to this crisis, to this genocidal war, I think from the Tigray government's perspective, the number one thing is to end the siege as well as the blockade. Imagine if some of us here in Canada didn't have banking services, we didn't have telephone services—
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
7:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I will come to that.
I think what happened is that Abiy Ahmed tried to delay the election in Ethiopia. At that time, the excuse he used was COVID-19. There were apparently less than 100 people infected with COVID-19, but he used it to exploit the situation so that there would be no election, so that he would have time to consolidate his power. That's what he used.
However, from the Tigray region, they said, according to the constitution it's stated that you have to conduct an election within five years. The Tigray region went ahead to have a democratic election. They started with that, and then Abiy Ahmed used his power to block any aid or any budget, to stop the budget for the Tigray region. He forbade any investment to Tigray. He even denied access to masks. The people of Tigray were not permitted to have them.
Then there was the locust crisis. He used that also for Tigray not to get those kinds of services. He has been preparing from the very beginning to crush into submission, to subdue the Tigray region, because the Tigray region was very....
Okay, I think I will stop here. Thank you.
7:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
We have actually reached time, Mr. Viersen, but thank you for that.
If you're in the middle of a thought, please don't hesitate to conclude the thought.
Mr. Trudel of the Bloc Québécois now has the floor.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
At the moment, humanitarian aid is being sent to Ethiopia, but the big problem is that it is not going to Tigray. Do you think it would be a good idea for the Canadian government to impose conditions on the Ethiopian government regarding humanitarian aid? For example, mechanisms could be put in place to ensure that aid goes to Tigray, even if it means sending soldiers, a force to ensure that humanitarian aid gets through.
Do you think it would be a good idea for Canada to impose conditions?
7:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Let me go on this.
I'd like to give you a perspective about food aid. It goes to Djibouti, and from Djibouti it goes directly to the Afar Region. From the border of the Afar Region all the way to Tigray is about 400 kilometres. In 400 kilometres, there are nine checkpoints. The same truck has to go through nine times.
At the checkpoint, there is no mechanism or sophistication. It has to done by people, and it depends on the volunteers who are going to do the check. For one truck to get from the border of Djibouti to Tigray, it takes a month. Sometimes they don't allow it. At the same time, it is up to the will of the government. They create a lot of excuses. That's not only the case.
It then gets to Tigray. There is no fuel. They give the trucks only enough fuel to go one way. In Mekelle, the capital city, which is in the southeast of the country, there are 60,000 metric tons of food. They can't distribute it to the rest of the region, because there is no fuel. Most of the bridges or roads are destroyed—totally deliberately by Eritrean military. It's not only one kind of problem.
What are we expecting of Canada? To give you a perspective, the United Nations Security Council has put the Tigrayan issue on its agenda 14 times. Most of the time, 99.9%, it is blocked by the Chinese and the Russians. You can see the bloc. You can see who is supporting and on the side of Abiy and who is not. There is also political balancing that we can see here.
Where is Canada? What are we expecting? We are expecting Canada to get in the front seat, at least on these 14 times, but we don't see it.
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I have 40 seconds of speaking time left.
I'd like to end by asking you the following question. If Mr. Trudeau were here tonight, what would you like to say to him?
7:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
I have to interrupt for a moment. We have bells ringing. Does anybody know how long the bells are?
Are we good? We'll continue. There's another minute left.
I apologize for interrupting. It's a matter of procedure here.
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I will repeat my question.
If Mr. Trudeau were in front of you, if he were at the meeting tonight, what would you want to say to him?
7:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Thank you for that question.
Actually, we have been trying for the Prime Minister of Canada to take concrete action, and one of these actions would be to stop funding Ethiopia with the bilateral aid. That aid, that taxpayers' money, is going to buy armaments—weapons. That's the first thing.
The other thing is, of course...I don't know the word, but for instance, in the United States, they use the AGOA, the African Growth and Opportunity Act. The Americans stopped that. Because of that, Abiy Ahmed seemed to listen. I think if there was similar action in Canada by the Canadian government, I think Abiy would listen. Otherwise, I don't think he could care less.
As I said earlier, this is a deliberate action. He says to the international community one thing, but he does different things. There is no communication. There is a communication blockade.
I think that's the important thing. Thank you.
7:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you, Mr. Gebremariam.
Now, as our final questioner, we have Ms. McPherson from the NDP.
7:50 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you again for your testimony tonight. It's been very important.
I'm going to ask a series of quicker questions, just to make sure we get a few things on the record.
I met with Roméo Dallaire, who, of course, worked in Rwanda for the Canadian military. I asked for a meeting with him, because I wanted to find out what we were seeing in Tigray and where that echo would have happened in Rwanda. We've heard testimony about some of the words that have been used and some of the ways that people have been targeted.
He talked about child soldiers. Of course, he is a champion in the field of preventing child soldiers. He said that child soldiers were being used, and that if we saw examples of child soldiers being used in the conflict in Ethiopia, it was a clear indication that genocide was taking place or about to take place.
Do any of you know anything about child soldiers being used in Tigray right now?
7:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Actually, no, but if it happens, I wouldn't be surprised. The reason is that if, in front of him, his sister is killed, his mum is raped, his dad is killed, and then he goes and picks up anything, whatever he can or she can, I wouldn't be surprised.
But, no, there is absolutely no evidence pointing to that.
7:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Can I answer that question a little bit, to add to what Gugsa said?
7:50 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
And I mean those not being used by the Tigrayans but by the government.
7:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes.
First of all, there is no access for investigation. If there is no investigation, how could we say that no child soldier has been used? Because of that blockade, it is a possibility. The likelihood is that child soldiers have been used, but we don't have the facts. In order to get the facts, we are asking that the UN-appointed investigation commission be allowed to investigate in Tigray, and not only in Tigray but anywhere in Ethiopia.
7:50 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Certainly that's something we can call for as parliamentarians. The government has already said that they would not participate in that examination or would not allow it, but we certainly could be pushing the government to do that, as the strings attached to bilateral aid.
There is another question that I have very quickly.
There has been some mention of Canadian mining companies in the area—in Eritrea, in the Tigrayan region. Do you think that there is any tie between Canada's corporate interests and the lack of action on Tigray?
7:50 p.m.
As an Individual
We think that is the case. Otherwise, why is Canada not taking any action? Canada is known for its feminist.... I mean, the Government of Canada, the Prime Minister, repeatedly say that it's a feminist government. Given the fact that there are thousands and thousands of women being raped, why is the Canadian government not taking concrete action?
I think that will lead to an investigation, a foreign interest investigation, but we think that money, that lucrative money, might be the reason Canada is not supporting or taking any action.