Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Welcome to meeting number 17 of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights. Today is Friday, October 28.

We have several witnesses here in person and several participating by Zoom today. Pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022, we're meeting in the hybrid fashion. For the benefit of witnesses and members, I ask you to please wait until you're acknowledged by me, the chair, before speaking. There's interpretation for those of you who need it. You can have interpretation in either English or French, just by clicking on the globe icon on the bottom of your screen, for those participating by Zoom. Any comments that are made should be addressed through the chair.

Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by this committee on Friday, September 23, we are going to resume our study on Tigray.

Before welcoming the witnesses, I would like to provide a trigger warning. This is a difficult study. We will be discussing experiences related to mental health. This may trigger those who are viewing and watching live. We're asking viewers, members or staff with experiences that are traumatizing, if they feel distressed or need help, to please advise the clerk.

Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. Yesterday we received a very troubling letter from United Tegaru Canada regarding some of the witnesses scheduled to be at today's meeting.

I wrote to you, but I did not receive a response. I asked you to cancel today's session so that we, as a committee, could discuss our witness lists. However, we are here now, so I'm raising this point of order publicly. The details in the letter we received are alarming. It is extremely problematic that our committee might give platform to individuals or organizations that are publicly circulating concerning remarks about Tigrayans, which in some cases may even amount to hate speech.

Our committee has the responsibility to provide a safe environment to all witnesses who are invited to testify. I do not believe we have met that standard today, and this is deeply troubling to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

I'd like to thank you, Ms. McPherson, for that extremely important remark.

I ask that we, as a committee, ensure that whatever witnesses we bring forth contribute to our discussion, to find truth wherever it lies. We all have the opportunity to ask the pointed questions that we need to ask when witnesses are appearing, and that's a full right that we have as members. I ask that we all employ that right.

Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I believe that having witnesses on this panel who will make other witnesses feel unsafe will limit our ability to get the testimony we require.

I'm deeply concerned that the way this panel has been set up is very problematic. I don't see how we can continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think we should ensure that the panellists are the ones who have the choice as to whether they want to continue or not. If the panellists wish to continue, we should give them a voice. If they are not comfortable, we also need to respect that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

With this, I would ask that if any panellists are not comfortable, they confidentially tell the clerk so.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is really problematic.

How do you expect a witness to feel comfortable speaking in confidence when everyone is listening?

Right now, it's too late. We are faced with a fait accompli.

So, I would suggest that we adjourn the debate today and bring back the witnesses so that they feel comfortable speaking without other witnesses restricting their freedom of speech. So we should come back with a much safer group of witnesses.

I am in such a bad mood this morning that words fail me. This situation is extremely delicate. I don't know what to say, I'm so angry. I don't want us to hear from certain witnesses in the presence of other witnesses because that could be dangerous.

So I propose that we adjourn the debate and go and do our job properly. We should call the witnesses again. I am sorry that they have travelled unnecessarily or connected by teleconference, but I think they will agree with me that there are some people who should not be involved at the same time as them.

Unfortunately, we can't ask them to say so and put pressure on them, because that would be frowned upon, I think.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

May I request a short suspension, which would allow the panellists and members to confer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

We'll suspend for five minutes so that panellists can confidentially go to the clerk. If I hear anything back, then we'll deal with that situation as it arises.

We're suspending for five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Hold on just one second. You don't have the floor. Therefore, please wait until you're recognized. Thank you.

[Jeff Pearce, Journalist and Author, Ethio-Canadian Network for Advocacy and Support]

I'm asking to speak with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

I'm the chair, and you will have the chance to speak when you're recognized. That's not the point right now, thank you.

[Jeff Pearce]

Sir, you talked about conferring with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

I'm sorry, Mr. Pearce. You do not have the floor.

[Jeff Pearce]

I'm trying to ask a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

I am resuming the meeting. The gavel has been hit.

I'd like to thank everybody for being here. We are going to continue as scheduled.

Today, we have three groups, and one person coming as an individual.

We have the Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations with Lambros Kiriakakos, chairperson, appearing by video conference; and Hermon Gidey, researcher, also appearing by video conference.

From the Ethio-Canadian Network for Advocacy and Support, we have Tihut Asfaw, president; Semaneh Jemere, vice-chair, Ottawa chapter; Worku Aberra, professor, by video conference; and Jeff Pearce, journalist and author.

As an individual, we have Mukesh Kapila, professor emeritus, global health and humanitarian affairs, University of Manchester.

The final group is Security and Justice for Tigrayans Canada, with Kidane Gebremariam, president and social worker; Britawit Arefayne, accountant; Dr. Abel Giday Kebedom, medical doctor; Feven Mulugeta, nurse.

Each of the four groups has six minutes.

We'll start off with the Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations, for six minutes, please.

[Lambros Kiriakakos, Chairperson, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations]

Honourable members, let me thank you for giving the Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations the opportunity, first, to appear before you, and second, to brief your esteemed committee. We are appearing for a second time before your esteemed committee.

Canada's relations with the Eritrean people can be traced to the eighties. Canada supported the Eritrean-Canadian association, which worked in liberated areas in Eritrea. In the early 2000s, Canada was also one of the countries contributing troops to the United Nations mission to Ethiopia and Eritrea, the UNMEE. The Canadian Forces in the UNMEE were performing peacekeeping operations in 1998 during the Ethiopian-Eritrean border war.

In 2018, Prime Minister Abiy sent a clear and unequivocal signal to the international community and, more importantly, to Eritrea that he was serious about Ethiopia accepting the ruling of the Eritrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission, which awarded Badme to Eritrea. President Isaias Afwerki responded to this by sending a delegation to Addis Ababa for the first time since the nineties. This paved the way for establishing diplomatic relations and a signing of the Eritrean-Ethiopian peace friendship agreement in Asmara on July 9, 2018.

This ushered in a new era of peace, ending two decades of what came to be known as “no war, no peace”. The euphoria surrounding the peace agreement expressed by the people of Eritrea and Ethiopia was nothing like the region had experienced before. There was overwhelming joy and hope. Families were reunited, borders were opened, and phone lines were operational, finally allowing families and friends to call each other and connect between the two countries.

However, there were serious questions that the people from Eritrea and Ethiopia asked themselves: “Why didn't this peace happen sooner?” The answer was the TPLF, which had stood in the way of peace for nearly two decades by illegally occupying sovereign Eritrean territory in violation of international law, specifically the 2002 ruling agreement of the Eritrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission.

Honourable members, we find ourselves again faced with an obstacle to peace in the TPLF. It has caused death and destruction in Ethiopia and is determined to tear the Horn of Africa apart. It triggered a war in November 2020 against the federal government of Ethiopia and sought to internationalize the conflict by launching at least 15 missiles targeting urban areas in Eritrea, including Asmara, totally unprovoked.

It is in this historical context that we have come to urge your esteemed committee to consider the constructive role Canada could play in the Horn of Africa.

On November 12, 1984, the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Declaration on the Right of Peoples to Peace. They recognized that “life without war serves as the primary international prerequisite for the material well-being, development and progress of countries, and for the full implementation of the rights and fundamental human freedoms proclaimed by the United Nations”.

Those who trigger wars should be held accountable and brought to justice, and peace should prevail. In order to get the Horn of Africa back on track to peace, we ask your esteemed committee to give serious consideration to the following three points:

The 2018 peace and friendship agreement signed between Ethiopia and Eritrea, anchored on the ruling of the Eritrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission, should be supported.

Canada should condemn the TPLF's unprovoked November 2020 attack against the Ethiopian National Defense Force and against Eritrea. The TPLF represents an immediate and existential threat to peace and security in the Horn of Africa.

Foreign state and non-state actors who support and arm the TPLF should be condemned. Foreign support for the TPLF has fuelled the conflict and emboldened the TPLF to continue offensive attacks.

Honourable members, we are committed to working with this committee to support your efforts in shaping Canada's role for peace in the Horn of Africa as a catalyst for development and human rights.

I am going to pass it to my co-worker, Hermon Gidey, for the rest of the three minutes.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have the remaining minute and a half, please.

[Lambros Kiriakakos]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Hermon Gidey, Researcher, Coalition of Eritrean Canadian Communities and Organizations]

Hello, everybody. My name is Hermon. I will shorten my statement to brief sentences.

First of all, I am from the Horn of Africa. As a Black woman, I can relate to the people of Tigray, particularly to the women of Tigray. No one is more interested in peace in this region than we are, because it has tremendous consequences for the Horn of Africa. As a relatively new country, Eritrea is interested in peace, development and partnership.

As the New Africa Institute in New York has identified, the TPLF disinformation network is composed of six stages. Essentially, each of these stages describes how the TPLF uses western allies and agents to disseminate propaganda and shape global public opinion.

In the first stage, TPLF leaders serve as a primary starting point for disinformation. For example, the former Ethiopian ambassador under the TPLF, Ambassador Wondimu, leaked talking points to William Davison of the International Crisis Group on behalf of the Tigray Friendship Liaison Office. Similarly, Mulugeta Gebrehiwot, a TPLF member, briefed Alex de Waal of the World Peace Foundation on battlefield conditions in Tigray. Both William Davison and Alex de Waal have written extensively on the war in northern Ethiopia. Their work has been cited by major international online and print media, shaping global public opinion.

In the second stage, there's the development of a pro-TPLF narrative. When they are briefed by TPLF operatives, the very same western contacts publish the TPLF's version of events in unconfirmed reports through their social media accounts and blogs. Some of these blogs and sites include those of the Europe External Programme with Africa, Eritrea Hub and the World Peace Foundation.

In the third stage, the TPLF creates facts on the ground that support the narrative. An example of this is a CNN video of a Dengelat villager in Tigray being coached on what to say for video cameras. The village of Dengelat was the site where the TPLF alleged that Eritrean soldiers committed a massacre. Nima Elbagir of CNN admitted on air that she relies on a network—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

With that, we have hit our limit on the time.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I did not interrupt the testimony in time. It was very difficult for the interpreters throughout the testimony. There may have been other microphones open. I don't know if the problem was caused by the videoconference or here on site. We have to be vigilant because I am told that it was very difficult. We know the work of our interpreters, so please be careful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you for the reminder, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We will continue with the next witnesses.

You'll have more of a chance to share what you want to share with us now, through questions and answers.

We'll go next to Security and Justice for Tigrayans Canada, for six minutes.

Please go ahead.